Author Topic: King Carlos & Queen Amelie of Portugal  (Read 128047 times)

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Agneschen

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Re: King Carlos & Queen Amelie of Portugal
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2006, 08:22:17 AM »
Thanks for the compliments La_Rainha !
I have read books on the Portuguese royals, that is all. Carlos's wife Amélie was French so she interested French biographers.

Offline José

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Re: King Carlos & Queen Amelie of Portugal
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2006, 12:53:10 PM »
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Carlos & Amélie actually had 3 children : Luiz Felipe (1887-1908), Maria Ana (born & dead in 1888) & Manuel (1889-1932). Maria Pia was Carlos's illegitimate daughter by a lady called Maria Amélia Laredò e Murça. She was later legitimated.


Maria Pia de Laredó e Muça was NEVER legitimized.
Even her parenthood was never completely asserted.
Of course she always pretended to be the illegitimate daughter of king D. Carlos, but there was never such proof.
A book about her was recently published in Lisbon by Jean Pailler (author of a bio on king D.Carlos) and it woke sleeping dogs.
Maria Pia is definitely "personna non grata" for most portuguese monarchics .
In spite of assuming herself as an illegitimate daughter of the king (which automatically removed her from the succession) not only did she pretend to succeed:
a) to the throne (she once accepted a proclamation from her very few supporters calling her D.Maria III.
b) to the duchy of Bragança
c) to the Bragança fortune (which Salazar had put in safe guard creating a Foundation of the House of Bragança in order that the Miguelist line would never touch those assets).
She wanted to succeed her brother king D.Manuel II in spite of the fact that:
a) he was married.
b) his mother was alive, and under the portuguese succession law she could never succeed him .

She pretended to have been recognized as D.Carlos' daughter by king Alfonso XIII who supported her discretly as such.
At a certain time she changed her name to Hilda Toledano to be safe from any opponents attacks and started writing for newspapers.
On a visit to Cuba she met Fulgencio Batista ... and her future first husband, a cuban playboy some 20 years older who spent all his fortune and the remains of her own.
Her maternal grand-father had made a huge fortune in Brazil and liked to be called Baron of Laredó - although he was never created a baron.
After the death oh her husband, she continued to moove on very high circles and pretends that Goebbels and Ciano had a plan for her to marry:
a) The Prince of Wales, Edward VIII !!!!
b) The duke of Kent (who was already married)
c) The duke of Aosta
d) The duke of Spoleto.
In the end she married an italian general 30 years older.
She had a handicapped daughter from her cuban husband and another daughter from the italian general.
In the 50/60s although she was not a very political person, she joined the opposition (republican) to Salazar, mainly Mario Soares, and never understood that she was being used as a pawn to divide the monarchic oppositionists (and situationists).

After the Revolution of 1974, with a little help from Mário Soares, she finally got an Identity Card establishing that she was D.Carlos' daughter.
Later that parenthood was revoked as the proofs had been forged.
She started a legal action against D.Duarte Pio for the possession of the Dukedom of Bragança which she lost.

Quite aged, almost blind and with her mind more and more confused, when the royal parentwood was revoked, she assumed that they had revoked also her nationality - which was never at steak.
So a good lady "friend" of hers suggested that she should marry a Portuguese fellow, and, just by chance, that "friend" had a son some 50 years younger (who was living with a gay friend in London) and wouldn't mind marrying her. Which they did.

Since her only daughter showed no interest in her mother's pretensions later she met a sicilian crook to whom she "sold" her rights against a small pension.
He styles himself as Duke of Bragança but nobody recognizes him as such.
Meanwhile he sells portuguese titles and decorations.

I've put this question in several boards and so far I had no answer.
Mª Pia felt she had to make a grand entrance in the royal world so she took profit of the wedding of Pss. Irene of Holland and Pr. Carlos-Hugo of Bourbon-Parma in Rome.
D.Duarte Nuno was a cousin of Carlos-Hugo so he naturally was invited.
At the middle of a party Mª Pia - who got access to it God knows how - approached D.Duarte and insulted him in very "unroyal" manners until she was shown the door.
Can anyone confirm this story ?

Offline José

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Re: King Carlos & Queen Amelie of Portugal
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2006, 12:58:11 PM »
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Carlos & Amélie actually had 3 children : Luiz Felipe (1887-1908), Maria Ana (born & dead in 1888) & Manuel (1889-1932). Maria Pia was Carlos's illegitimate daughter by a lady called Maria Amélia Laredò e Murça. She was later legitimated.


The story of Infanta D. Maria Ana is a very sad one.
D.Carlos and D. Amélia were staying at Vila Viçosa Palace in Alentejo where the king liked to hunt and paint.

One night the little crib of Pr.Luis Filipe got on fire because of some candle left near.

The Queen rushed to the crib to save her son.
By then she was heavily pregnant and with the schock and the effort she went into labour but the child was a stillborn.

David_Pritchard

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Re: King Carlos & Queen Amelie of Portugal
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2006, 08:11:20 PM »
The entire Maria Pia case would be farcical if so many people were not led astray by this woman, named Hilda, who was born in Cuba, not Portugal (this alone would have excluded her from being the head of the Royal House of Portugal). She was not the legitimate or illegitimate daughter of King Carlos of Portugal, she was a fraud. She was never legitimated, instead when she had a copy of her baptismal certificate made, the priest inscribed, "alleges to be the daughter of the King of Portugal" on the document, not that she was actually the daughter of the King of Portugal.

Her claimed arms, the Royal Arms of Portugal, were registered in her name by the Office of the Chief Herald of Ireland have since been struck from the register as deceptive. Hilda was simply another fake, not anywhere near as practiced as Anna Anderson.

Offline Grand Duke

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Re: King Carlos & Queen Amelie of Portugal
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2006, 06:22:34 PM »
Hilda Toledano, the faked Maria Pia de Braganza



To know more, see the following links:
1) Hilda Toledano
2) Claim supporters website
3) A response to the supporters of Maria Pia
4) Maria Pia: The Pretender


I'm THE GRAND DUKE of LIPTON-upon-AVON ! Please to meet you. I'm glad you know my name!

Offline José

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Re: King Carlos & Queen Amelie of Portugal
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2006, 11:37:29 AM »
Hi Grand-Duke.

Have you read the book ?
I found it most "instructive".
Although leaving some unanswered questions .

Why would her maternal family have so easy access to Alfonso XIII ? Or why would the duke of Cadaval, - a most loyal Miguelist - who cared nothing abouth the Bragança-Saxe-Coburgs would want to support her and help her ?  ???

Have you ever heard about the scandal she provoked at the Irena-Carlos Hugo wedding ?
I've posted the question in several Fora (including here at the Benelux Royalty - see under Irene, Carlos-Hugo and Maria Pia) but so far I had no answers.

Offline port.monarchist

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Re: King Carlos & Queen Amelie of Portugal
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2006, 04:09:10 AM »

The princess Maria Pia served a notice of the usurpation of the Duke of Braganza title on Duarte Nuno by the Rome Court.

YEAR  1962 !!!!!!



Best regards

Offline port.monarchist

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Re: King Carlos & Queen Amelie of Portugal
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2006, 04:16:31 AM »
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The entire Maria Pia case would be farcical if so many people were not led astray by this woman, named Hilda, who was born in Cuba, not Portugal (this alone would have excluded her from being the head of the Royal House of Portugal). She was not the legitimate or illegitimate daughter of King Carlos of Portugal, she was a fraud. She was never legitimated, instead when she had a copy of her baptismal certificate made, the priest inscribed, "alleges to be the daughter of the King of Portugal" on the document, not that she was actually the daughter of the King of Portugal.

Her claimed arms, the Royal Arms of Portugal, were registered in her name by the Office of the Chief Herald of Ireland have since been struck from the register as deceptive. Hilda was simply another fake, not anywhere near as practiced as Anna Anderson.





HRH D. Maria Pia is the legitimate  daughter of King Carlos of Portugal !!!!!

Claim supporters website

Offline José

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Re: King Carlos & Queen Amelie of Portugal
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2006, 03:17:00 PM »
So after all the troubles you caused at Genea, you moved here with your fancy silly ideas  >:(!!!

Maria Pia was never recognized as D. Carlos' daughter.

How can you be so pathetic to say that she IS the LEGITIMATE daughter of King D.Carlos  ;D ?

As far as I know the King did not divorce Queen D. Amélia and married Maria Pia's mother, so, even if she was his daughter - which I am not recognizing - the most she could aspire is to the condition of a bastard daughter !!!

And bastard sons do not apply for the throne succession.

Offline port.monarchist

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Re: King Carlos & Queen Amelie of Portugal
« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2006, 04:16:51 AM »
Also usurper claimant for the last monarchic Constitution of 1838 ( and never revoked ) as Duarte Pio of Braganza and Orleans do not apply for the throne succession (art.98 of the same Constitution:"The collateral line of the ex-infant Dom Miguel and all his descendants are perpetually excluded from the succession" ).




Offline José

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Re: King Carlos & Queen Amelie of Portugal
« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2006, 01:50:57 PM »
Anything related to the TRUE Royal House of Portugal has nothinh to do with that fake woman.

She could not even proove her parenthood.

And it is strange that she only "appeared" after the death of the last members of the reigning branch of the Royal Family to claim an inheritance she HAD NO RIGHT TO !!!

A fake and a fraudulent woman  >:(.

Offline port.monarchist

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Re: King Carlos & Queen Amelie of Portugal
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2006, 09:23:19 AM »
The only fraudolent pretender is the miguelist pretender Duarte Nuno ( http://www.theroyalhouseofportugal.org/html/1835.html )
and these miguelists after the death of SM dom Manuel II had took the portuguese population in and also now falsify the hystorical truth.

About the truth identity of SAR dona Maria Pia of Saxe Coburg Braganza you can see all the official documentation in this web page:
http://www.theroyalhouseofportugal.org/html/donmarie.htm

David_Pritchard

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Re: King Carlos & Queen Amelie of Portugal
« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2006, 01:23:55 PM »
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The princess Maria Pia served a notice of the usurpation of the Duke of Braganza title on Duarte Nuno by the Rome Court.

YEAR  1962 !!!!!!



Best regards


Anyone familiar with the tactics of false claimants would know that Italy is where they file their lawsuits in an effort to substantiate their claims. You forgot to inform us if Hilda won her case?

It might have been more believable if Hilda had filed her lawsuit in Portugal but of course we all know that the Parliament of Portugal had recognised Dom Duarte Nuno de Bragança as the rightful heir in YEAR 1950!!!!!

David

David_Pritchard

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Re: King Carlos & Queen Amelie of Portugal
« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2006, 01:36:22 PM »
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The only fraudolent pretender is the miguelist pretender Duarte Nuno ( http://www.theroyalhouseofportugal.org/html/1835.html )
and these miguelists after the death of SM dom Manuel II had took the portuguese population in and also now falsify the hystorical truth.

About the truth identity of SAR dona Maria Pia of Saxe Coburg Braganza you can see all the official documentation in this web page:
http://www.theroyalhouseofportugal.org/html/donmarie.htm


Your statement above is totally false and misleading. May the truth set you free.

In an attempt to reconcile the two branches of the Royal House of Bragança, King Manuel II met with Dom Miguel (also known as King Miguel II), the only son of King Miguel I (reigned 1828-1834), at the English city of Dover in 1912. At this meeting the future Headship of the Royal House of Bragança was discussed as King Manuel II had not yet married. In 1920, Dom Miguel resigned his dynastic rights in favour of his only son Dom Duarte Nuno by his wife Dona Theresa, daughter of Carl Prince von Lowenstein-Wertheim-Rosenberg.

Two years later, in 1922, The Pact of Paris was signed by the representatives of both already married but heirless King Manuel II and Dom Duarte Nuno which resolved the future Headship of the Royal House of Bragança. The Pact of Paris stated:

It has been declared:

A. by the first signatory (for H.M. King Dom Manuel II) that His August Head in default of a direct heir will accept the successor indicated by the general Cortes of the Portuguese nation.
B. Equally he (H.M. King Dom Manuel II) will accept the resolution of the same Cortes as to the political constitution of the restored Monarchy.
C. With the agreement of the Holy See the religious question will be resolved by means of a diploma which is to be submitted to the Cortes.

By the second Signatory (for H.R.H. Dom Duarte Nuno) it was said before the proceeding Declaration His August Head (H.R.H. Dom Duarte Nuno) would ask and recommend to all His supporters that they would accept as King of Portugal Dom Manuel II, and that they would unite loyally under the same Flag that shelters Monarchists. That is the Flag of the Motherland and that Flag shall save Portugal.


In 1927, Dom Miguel died leaving Dom Duarte Nuno as the male heir of King Miguel I. Five years later, King Manuel II died without issue leaving Dom Duarte Nuno as the legitimate Chief of the Royal House of Bragança. Dom Duarte Nuno married Princess Dona Maria Francisca of Brazil, the daughter of Dom Pedro Prince of Grão Para, in 1942. This union resulted in the birth of three sons: Dom Duarte Pio João Miguel Gabriel Rafael (the present Duke of Bragança), Dom Miguel Rafael Gabriel Xavier Teresia Maria Felix (the present Duke of Viseu) and Dom Henrique Nuno João Miguel (the present Duke of Coïmbra). The Royal Family was invited to return to Portugal in 1950 at the request of the benevolent dictator Antonio de Oliveira Salazar who was President of the Council of Ministers of the National Assembly of the Republic of Portugal (the legislative body which replaced the Cortes).

 David Pritchard

David_Pritchard

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Re: King Carlos & Queen Amelie of Portugal
« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2006, 04:07:16 PM »
Since you seem to think highly of Italian Court rulings, below is one in which Rosario Poidamani, the alleged heir of Hilda, lost his lawsuit against Guy Stair Sainty whom had been sued for disputing the absurd claims of Rosario.

Mr Rosario Poidimani / Guy Stair Sainty Esq.

 Here is the verdict issued by the Tribunale di Vicenza on 5th August 2004

Guy Stair Sainty completely won the judgement against Mr Rosario Poidimani

"reclamo ex art. 669 terdecies cpc contro l’ordinanza del Tribunale di Vicenza del 4.06.04 "

The Tribunale di Vicenza, after having seen the article  669 terdecies cpc, "in accoglimento del reclamo depositato in data 24.06.04 da Stair Sainty Guy, REVOCA il provvedimento ex art. 700 cpc del 4.06.04 emesso dal tribunale di Vicenza nella causa n. 8304/2003 RG e oggetto del presente reclamo. Spese al definitivo".

We should like to know the replies of Mr Rosario Poidimani to the following questions:

1) In the verdict he introduces himself as H.R.H. Dom Rosario Poidimani Italian Citizen. Does he have this style on his official documents issued by the Italian Republic?

Indeed, HRH the Prince Victor Emanuel of Savoy and HRH the Prince Amedeo of Savoy Aosta have this style on their birth certificates. Also the King of Spain, born in Italy, has on his Italian birth certificate the style of HRH the Infante Don Juan Carlos de Bourbon.

Why was the style HRH and DOM used by Mr Rosario Poidimani to introduce himself in the cause against Guy Stair Sainty Esq., we should be most interested to see his Italian document where such styles appear.

 2) Mr Rosario Poidimani affirms he lost a business of 400,000,000,00 Euros. This amount is huge!

As tax returns are public we should be also interested - if possible - to know how high his income is?

We have never found - until now - his name quoted in “Il Mondo Economico” or “Il Sole 24 Ore”, the most famous Italian economic publications.

 3) In Italy all the Italian Citizens are subjected to the Law 3rd March 1951 where at Article 8 it is written: “Art. 8- Excluding that laid out in art. 7, the conferral of honours, decorations, awards of knighthood, in any form or with any name whatsoever, by bodies, associations or individuals is prohibited. Violators will be punished with prison sentences from six months to two years and with a fine of between two hundred and fifty thousand lire and five hundred thousand lire”.

Does it correspond to the truth that he grants former Portuguese Orders?

4) In his site at http://www.realcasaportuguesa.org/media/docs/ordini/vilavicosa1.jpg Mr Rosario Poidimani inserted documents that never were issued by the ICOC and were signed by a person who was not member of ICOC at the time when he should have signed such documents.

5) We should be most interested to receive a copy of the ICOC Register in which Mrs Maria Pia di Braganza is inserted as the Head of the Royal House of Portugal, because such copy does not exist and the General Secretary in charge at that time always publicly denied that the Executive Committee examined the claims of Mrs Maria Pia di Braganza.

6) Why Mrs Maria Pia di Braganza surrendered her "orders" as a claimant to the Throne of Portugal to Mr Rosario Poidimani inserting in her adbication the wrong affirmation that her "orders" were "recognized" by the ICOC

(this never happened) and we should be also interested to know which moral value this document might have founded as it is on another document which never existed.

7) Why did Mr Rosario Poidimani forbide the present President of ICOC to meet Mrs Maria Pia di Braganza when he was asked this through Gen Dr. Amos Spiazzi di Corte Regia?

 8) Why was Mrs Maria Pia di Braganza cremated?

We should have many other questions to ask, but we will do so in time

May we hope to receive a reply to these questions?