Author Topic: Maria and Nicholas Demenkov  (Read 108490 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Sarastasia

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 277
  • "This is their life... Live it with them."
    • View Profile
    • My Website
Re: Maria and Nicholas Demenkov
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2005, 09:56:23 AM »
Quote
There are no actual accounts on this story besides misinformational sites like the one above. And if you have heard it on numerous other sites, could you please post them?
Yes, Marie wasn't a complete angel, but she knew her  limits. Do you honestly think she would want her beloved Papa to know she was kissing one of his soldiers. No matter how much she would have wanted to, she wouldn't go that far.
Furthermore, do you think one of the Tsar's soldiers would even dare to kiss one of the Tsar's young daughters?!? Think about this for awhile.


You've got a point there, Holly.
But according to the accounts I've read it was only ONCE as Anastasia caught them. This kiss could have been a heat of the moment type thing.
She probably DIDN'T want her father to know, but Anastasia probably leaked it out.
Yes the solider would have been cautious, but afterall, if they truely loved each other, would he care if he was found out?
Judging by the Tsar and Tsarina's reaction to Maria and Nicholas, the found it rather funny, probably a little silly and unrealistic.
Maybe Maria just wanted something different from constantly being an Angel and a Tsar's daughter? Don't you think she must have got tired of being a Tsar's daughter? I sure would be.
"Think about this for awhile."

Offline Holly

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1411
  • www.otma.org
    • View Profile
    • otmaa.org
Re: Maria and Nicholas Demenkov
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2005, 11:16:20 AM »
You have alot of good points too Sarastasia.
But, the fact of the matter is, this "kiss'' has never even been proven to have happened. And I won't believe it until a trustworthy site or author reports this as well. The site that states this tall tale is probably run by a sixth grader. I have not heard this anywhere else. If Nicholas and Alexandra thought Marie and Demekov so funny they probably would have mentioned it in letters or diarys or somewhere else. If Marie HAD been kissing him, Alexandra obviously did NOT aprove judging by her letter. She knew he only cared for her as a little sister and knew she was only a little GD and didn't want to hurt her. Alexandra obviously knew Kolya's feelings and wanted to break it gently to young Marie.

"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

http://www.otmaa.org -- Coming Soon.

Offline Johnny

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
  • Never mind!
    • View Profile
Re: Maria and Nicholas Demenkov
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2005, 07:20:38 PM »
I haven't read anything about this KISS story. I also feel that by now I know the characters of these 4 girls quite well. I can't tell you whether this story really happened or not. But, in my opinion it is very likely. In fact, I am quite sure that the 3 older girls have had more than a little flirtation with other men. It is easier to imagine them kissing a guard or soldier than kissing an officer or a grand duke, because the officers would be much more self-conscious about it and worried about their own position and reputation. By the way, of the three older girls Marie (angel or not) would be the most likely to do such a thing. She was so warm and kind and would have the hardest time hiding her emotions. And comm'on! It was just a kiss! And definitely not of the wet French (Oh, I am so sorry! I meant Freedom) variety.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Johnny »
Татьяна: Кто ты - мой ангел ли хранитель?

Offline Lanie

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1533
    • View Profile
Re: Maria and Nicholas Demenkov
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2005, 07:40:58 PM »
This is what happens when people rely on fiction books for historical purposes.

::)

Offline Ortino

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1027
  • Ortino
    • View Profile
Re: Maria and Nicholas Demenkov
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2005, 07:41:54 PM »
Quote
This is what happens when people rely on fiction books for historical purposes.

::)


;D ::)

Offline Sarastasia

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 277
  • "This is their life... Live it with them."
    • View Profile
    • My Website
Re: Maria and Nicholas Demenkov
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2005, 02:46:33 AM »
Quote
But, in my opinion it is very likely. In fact, I am quite sure that the 3 older girls have had more than a little flirtation with other men. It is easier to imagine them kissing a guard or soldier than kissing an officer or a grand duke, because the officers would be much more self-conscious about it and worried about their own position and reputation. By the way, of the three older girls Marie (angel or not) would be the most likely to do such a thing. She was so warm and kind and would have the hardest time hiding her emotions. And comm'on! It was just a kiss! And definitely not of the wet French (Oh, I am so sorry! I meant Freedom) variety.


I agree with you, Johnny. Yes, Maria would be the most likely to have got herself into such a relationship. It WAS just a kiss afterall. And basing the next sentence on what I know about Maria and Anastasia, I'd say this is fairly true: Maria, if she'd been discovered by Anastasia in the midst of this kiss with Nicholas, Maria would have been discouraged to ever let herself slip and kiss Nicholas again, afterall Anastasia probably would have had a go at Maria about it, but then found it funny.  ;D

Sarastasia

Offline Sarastasia

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 277
  • "This is their life... Live it with them."
    • View Profile
    • My Website
Re: Maria and Nicholas Demenkov
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2005, 02:48:21 AM »
Quote
This is what happens when people rely on fiction books for historical purposes.

::)


Although it's never been historicially proved, it IS likely that Maria did let herself show her affection prehaps by mistake, but this relationship involoving Maria isn't the only one flying about.....

Offline Holly

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1411
  • www.otma.org
    • View Profile
    • otmaa.org
Re: Maria and Nicholas Demenkov
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2005, 08:09:37 AM »
Quote
This is what happens when people rely on fiction books for historical purposes.

::)

;D ;D
Thanks Lanie.
"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

http://www.otmaa.org -- Coming Soon.

Offline Sarastasia

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 277
  • "This is their life... Live it with them."
    • View Profile
    • My Website
Re: Maria and Nicholas Demenkov
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2005, 04:35:07 AM »
Who said anything about using a fiction book as a historical resource?? ?? ??

Offline Margarita Markovna

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3809
  • Call me Ritka :)
    • View Profile
    • My Yahoo Group for OTMA! Join!
Re: Maria and Nicholas Demenkov
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2005, 01:25:45 PM »
The site you found it on, Sarastasia.

Offline Sarastasia

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 277
  • "This is their life... Live it with them."
    • View Profile
    • My Website
Re: Maria and Nicholas Demenkov
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2005, 10:14:57 AM »
The site said nothing about a fiction book as it's resource either. Would any historian or person interested in history trust a fiction book as a decent source?

Offline Lanie

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1533
    • View Profile
Re: Maria and Nicholas Demenkov
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2005, 02:26:08 PM »
A lot of websites get information from that Royal Diaries book.  Most of the websites are by young, stupid kids who don't know any better and did a book report on that one.  One can tell when they say "oh look Anastasia saw Maria kissing a boy and Maria got introuble!"  It's common sense.

Offline Margarita Markovna

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3809
  • Call me Ritka :)
    • View Profile
    • My Yahoo Group for OTMA! Join!
Re: Maria and Nicholas Demenkov
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2005, 06:17:00 PM »
I sure know that when *someone* was in third or fourth grade and read it for the first time, *she* thought it was real at first too.  ::) *cough* dunno who that could be...

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: Maria and Nicholas Demenkov
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2005, 09:37:42 PM »
What irritates me about that Royal Diaries book is that it gives historical fiction a bad name. I agree that you shouldn't rely on fiction for the purpose of research, but good fiction shouldn't spread misinformation, or take liberties that are clearly out of line with the people or time it's representing. Especially in a children's book. Kids deserve accuracy as much as the rest of us.  >:(
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline lostfan

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 225
  • lille prins christian
    • View Profile
Re: Maria and Nicholas Demenkov
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2005, 12:26:59 AM »
This is what happens when I forget to check old thread of mine!  ;D ::)

Yes, I did get this "biography" from a site about Anastasia, and although I can't remember how I even found it in the first place, it was taken from a summary or a book report about the Anastasia Royal Diaries book. I knew that Nicholas Demenkov was a real person, and I wasn't paying much attention to the actual site to realise that it was just a summary of the book.

On another note, I did a google search on Nicholas Demenkov and all I found was this from Anna Vyrubova's book, an excerpt from a letter from Alexandra from New Year, 1918:

Did you know that the marine officer Nicholas Demenkov has appendicitis?
Men are haunted by the vastness of eternity. And so we ask ourselves: will our actions echo across the centuries? Will strangers hear our names long after we're gone and wonder who we were? How bravely we fought? How fiercely we loved?