Author Topic: Empress Catherine II  (Read 85876 times)

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Offline Greg_King

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2004, 04:34:11 AM »
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You need to keep in mind that Catherine was an independent, self-actualized woman in an age when all of us, royal or not, were expected to be submissive baby makers. A great deal of mythology exists about Catherine and her sexuality because she did not fit into that 18th century mold. More power to her, I say, and notice the gender of the people telling these stories.


And I think it important to note, too, that these stories were largely spread by those surrounding Paul I, in an on-going attempt to discredit Catherine and blacken her accomplishments.

The best refutation (and for that matter, the best biography of Catherine) is in John T. Alexander's biography of the Empress, where he discusses this fable at great length.

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Offline RomanovFan

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2004, 04:51:51 PM »
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Hi to all, From what I've read on the great lady surely the question of the legitimancy of the subsequent heirs to the throne is entirely unfounded. Her son Paul was from "the other side of the blanket" and therefore the Romanov line ended with Elizabeth surely....or am I wrong. I seem to remember reading in Massie's Nicholas and Alexandra that Nicholas was only by a tiny fraction (1 in 300 parts?) Russian. Making Alexeii 1 in 600?



I've thought about that before, myself.  Nicholas II's mother was Danish, making him half Danish, but was Alexander III full-blooded Russian or no? Because if he was, that means Nicholas would've been half Russian, making Alexei and the girls a quarter Russian, quarter Danish and half German from their mother, Alix.
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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2004, 05:43:25 PM »
There has not been a Russian spouse in the reigning line since Peter III, Catherine II's ill-fated husband. Even his father was German & I am not sure what his mother, Anne, was. HER father was Peter I [the Great] & is mother- Catherine I, I am not sure of. I have read so many stories of her origins, I do not know what the consensus is now.
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Offline Belochka

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2004, 10:18:58 PM »
Ekaterina I was the daughter of a Lithuanian peasant called Samuel Skavronskii who fled to Livonia (Swedish province). Martha Skavronskaya was born in Ringen located near the city of Dorpat.

RomanovFan is correct in stating that Nikolai II was half- Russian but by birth only, because his father Alexander III was born in SPb.  

However if one traces the ethnicity of the Romanov Family from Peter I up to Nikolai II, then there is very little Russian blood remaining, having been diluted through the centuries by both Germanic and Danish Royal families.

Peter the Great was the last full-blooded Russian Emperor.  ;)


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Offline AGRBear

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2004, 11:27:52 AM »
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...
The question of Paul's legitimacy is a hard one... actually it was Catherine who in some writings stated he was not Peter III's son. Of course, that may be true...


Since so many of you are so well versed on this subject,  who is on the list of possible father's of Peter III?

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Offline Katya04

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2004, 12:58:45 PM »
Thanks for your information and responses!

Offline Olga

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2004, 08:19:15 AM »
Peter III Fyodorovich's father was Karl Friedrich, Duke of Holstein Gottorp. His mother was Anna Petrovna, Grand Duchess of Russia, who was a daughter of Peter I Alexeevich.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2004, 11:41:19 AM »
Thanks Olga.

Now,  what I meant to ask was,  "Since so many of you are so well versed on this subject, who is on the list of possible natural  father's of Paul I?"  

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
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Offline Louise

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2004, 11:49:01 AM »
Ah, the tricky question of who the daddy is. The official father is of course Peter III. The probable and most likely father is Segei Vasilyevich Saltykov, a chamberlain of Grand Duke Peter.

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Offline AGRBear

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2004, 09:11:58 PM »
Did Catherine II ever state in any diary or letter that Segei Vasilyevich Saltykov was Paul I's father?

It seems like I remember reading Cath. II never revealed  Saltykov was the father.

I don't recall seeing any portraits of Saltykov either...

What was Saltykov's fate?  I remember he was sent off to Sweden after Paul I was born....  Then I think he returned but then what happen to him.  Did he and his wife have any children?  If Saltykov did have children with his wife, what happen to his children, who would have been Paul I's half sisters/ brothers.....?  

Was there anyone else who might have been Paul I's natural father?

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Offline RomanovFan

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2004, 05:34:00 PM »
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What sort of a woman was she?  Historians have payed more attention to her love life than her achievements.  And how did she die?


Catherine (Ekaterina) II 'The Great' was born as Sophie Augusta Freidrica, Princess of Prussia (I think) or Germany at least. She was taken from her homeland and brought to Russia by the current Tsarina. Then the Tsarina brought her nephew over from Prussia (a distant Romanov relative from the Holstein line) Peter III. They hated each other and he hated Russia and everything Russian, at least that's what history tells us, and after giving birth to at least 2 of Peter's children (this uncluded a son), she had him killed. Catherine II had several lovers that she was with during her marriage to the Tsar Peter III. I don't know if there were any children from these affairs though.  She was supposed to have restriced punishment of the surfs in 1875 to being less cruel and harmful to them, but by doing this she may have given the nobles more power over them. She gained territory for Russia, making it a larger country, imported musicians, architects,ect. from other countries to modernize Russia.  She died from natural causes in November, 1796.
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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2004, 11:21:52 PM »
Goodness, Leslie, there are a couple of things in your post that need to be corrected:

1. CTG was a Princess of Anhalt-Zerbst. There was no Germany as a nation state during Catherine's time. She was a very minor German princess when she was brought to Russia.
2. Empress Elizabeth brought her nephew who would become Tsar Peter III to Russia before CTG's arrival.
3. Her nephew was not a "distant Romanov". Other than the Empress, he was the only remaining descendant of PTG. It was decidedly the Empress' choice that Peter's line continue on the throne. (Though her sister had married an Oldenberg prince.)
4. Catherine did not have Peter killed after he fathered two children. She had to wait until Elizabeth died. After Peter III became Tsar, Catherine overthrew him with a coup d'etat.

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2004, 07:04:07 PM »
I no this is a dumb thing to ask but what color was  Catherine's hair white or black i get contradicting descriptions
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 10:46:07 PM by Alixz »

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2004, 11:38:37 PM »
I believe Catherine's hair was dark when she was younger. She lived in an age where people wore wigs, and so she also wore them - in the light or white color you have seen.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2004, 01:24:42 AM »
There are images of Ekaterina as a young Empress with very long dark brown hair which she decorated with what appear to strings of pearls. There is also a painting of her with long flowing curled dark brown hair which supports her regal Crown.

When she rode a horse, she chose to wear male attire. I have a colored image and a separate drawing of her wearing her dark hair drawn back into a pony-tail tied with a black silk bow. This particular hairstyle originated in the Prussian Army.

Catherine apparently was fashion conscious, and believed it was her duty to dress splendidly as an Empress should. With maturity she chose to wear powdered wigs. According to fashion starch not talcum powder was applied to the hair, even if it was real.  :D

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Belochka »


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