Author Topic: Empress Catherine II  (Read 127406 times)

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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #195 on: January 30, 2007, 09:16:04 AM »
Indeed, I agree. Catherine was one of the more effective Russian monarchs, as was Peter the Great, who was not always the most pious of rulers at times. Catherine was more sedate than him of course, in such things as not throwing  drunken parties, or inflicting cruel punishments. But, they are both good examples of rulers whose private lives and ruling were pretty much two different things, whatever the nature of their private life.

Offline ivanushka

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #196 on: June 01, 2007, 07:14:30 AM »
I agree that Johanna could have been a better mother to Catherine the Great, particularly in early childhood.  That said, the only option to princesses in those days was to make the grandest match possible and in that matter at least, Johanna achieved a major result!  As soon as Catherine was able to walk and talk her mother dragged her round the German courts, allowing her to see and be seen, all with a good marriage in mind.

I think Johanna felt all her life that fate had denied her the opportunity to shine and Catherine suffered because of that.  However, I think that in the build up to Catherine's marriage the two of them did grow closer and both were very upset at their parting.  The two of them did correspond as much as they could once Johanna left Russia (I think Empress Elizabeth tried to forbid correspondence between them) and I suspect that they could have ended up being friends once Catherine was an adult and a mother herself.

Offline lori_c

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #197 on: August 21, 2007, 12:27:39 PM »
This child, although given the honorary patronymic Petrovna, was almost certainly the child of Catherine's liaison with Stanislaus Poniatowski, 'le beau Polonais,' of whom she writes in her Memoires. With childhood disease rampant everywhere,  and infant mortality rates quite high, it seems likely that the little Anne died of one or another fever in March, 1759. Catherine does not mention her, although she must have felt some pain at the loss of this daughter.
I have never seen a portrait of this child, although some exist of Grand Duke Paul in childhood. Since Catherine was extricating herself from the rather sticky coils of Poniatowski's fervent devotion to her, she may not have kept much in the way of mementoes from their liaiason. It was also unusual, in this period. to paint a  child quite that young (although cf. Mme Vigee-Lebrun's  studies of Marie Antoinette and her children). If anybody finds one, please post it! - thanks!
I find it interesting that Peter III did not deny paternity for little Anna either.  Perhaps because of the money each parent received whenever a child was born?  Money definitely served the interests of both parties and both were constantly in debt.

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #198 on: August 21, 2007, 04:12:56 PM »
I think it was just easier for him to accept paternity, in my opinion, even though he certainly knew he wasn't the girl's father, and he was not. I think the money certainly had something to with though, I agree, that's a very good point. All in all, he had more advantages than disadvantages to gain when he accepted paternity, which must be why he did it. I suppose had she lived in to her mother's reign and to grow up, as Paul did, and when her supposed father was dead, she would still have been identified as his daughter, but I am sure it would just have been for the sake of appearances, nothing more. It never became more of a question, because she died so young.

Offline lori_c

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #199 on: August 21, 2007, 04:38:19 PM »
True.  And also, the Empress accepted the child as Peter's whether she truly believed it or not, and it doesn't seem likely he would go against her.

Offline ivanushka

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #200 on: August 23, 2007, 07:23:33 AM »
I'm sure I remember reading in some biography of Catherine that Paul did question the paternity of baby Anna.  Though he didn't make any public denials of paternity I think he was heard to remark to more than one courtier words to the effect that "I don't know how my wife gets pregnant because it's certainly nothing to do with me."  I agree that it was easier for him to not make a big deal about it as he received money and anyway the birth of another child helped stabilise the dynasty.

Offline lori_c

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #201 on: August 25, 2007, 12:16:20 AM »
True enough.  But the Empress accepted the child as legitimate .  Knowing the truth or not she snatched little Anna just as she did Paul, both bearing Paul's patronym.  As has been stated with Paul's birth,This would have been seen as a legitmate heir and had Peter denied either, he could have gotten rid of Catherine quite easily.   They detested each other and he was looking for a reason to either send her to a convent or prison so he could be with his mistress.  Was it fear of the Empress' wrath and his loss of the throne that made him not deny his children?  Obviously, he KNEW Orlov's child was not his, but by that time the Empress had passed and Catherine hid the child in secret.

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #202 on: October 14, 2009, 07:36:44 PM »
Perhaps a silly question, but I was looking her portrait which she is ridding a horse and I noticed that
her hair was very long... Do you know it's lenght?

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #203 on: October 15, 2009, 10:59:56 AM »
Hello Alzbeta!

Just for curiosity, which portrait do you mean?, the only portrait of Catherine II on horseback that I know is that one by Vigilius Ericksen... http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/04/2007/hm4_2_222_0.html

Do you mean that one or another?...

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #204 on: October 15, 2009, 01:07:08 PM »
Yes, you're correct, i'm reffering to this painting, her hair looks very long, I think that it
may be at the level of her waist, but I'm not sure.

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #205 on: June 02, 2010, 02:37:48 PM »
At horseback

Cartoon of her

Tsarina of Russia

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #206 on: June 02, 2010, 02:45:52 PM »
As an old lady

Ekaterina



Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #207 on: June 02, 2010, 02:46:35 PM »
Ekaterina




Offline TimM

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #208 on: June 16, 2010, 10:18:27 PM »
For some reason my high school history teacher believed that old wives tale about Catherine dying while, *ahem*, trying to get it on with a horse.

Really, how could anyone believe that, it isn't even physically possible.  Any see that episode of Friends in which Chandler posts on Ross's alumni page that Ross cloned a dinosaur and was having sex with it?  Ross, when he found out, told Chandler that it would be physcially impossible (still it was a funny episode).  The same would be the same for a horse and a human.
Cats: You just gotta love them!

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #209 on: June 17, 2010, 01:24:50 PM »
I read that it was only simply a rumour...