Author Topic: Empress Catherine II  (Read 87276 times)

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Offline RomanovFan

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2004, 09:17:52 PM »
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Goodness, Leslie, there are a couple of things in your post that need to be corrected:

1. CTG was a Princess of Anhalt-Zerbst. There was no Germany as a nation state during Catherine's time. She was a very minor German princess when she was brought to Russia.
2. Empress Elizabeth brought her nephew who would become Tsar Peter III to Russia before CTG's arrival.
3. Her nephew was not a "distant Romanov". Other than the Empress, he was the only remaining descendant of PTG. It was decidedly the Empress' choice that Peter's line continue on the throne. (Though her sister had married an Oldenberg prince.)
4. Catherine did not have Peter killed after he fathered two children. She had to wait until Elizabeth died. After Peter III became Tsar, Catherine overthrew him with a coup d'etat.


Oops....well, that's just bits and peices of what I remember from the 'RUSSIA: Land of the Tsars' history channel series....I guess they were a little off. It's hard to tell what's true with history and what's not sometimes because each person, book or tv program says something a little bit different from the others.
~LESLIE~

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Offline James_Davidov

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2004, 12:33:49 AM »
I found a beautiful old copy of a biography 'Catherine The Great' by Ian Grey.  I think it swidely published, anywaz, its fairly extensive and written informatively...everything anyone would want to know is there........its was the first time i encountered the whole Orlov issue?>>?>>>was it really the House of Orlov instead of the House of Romanov????? :o

here is the account of her death from the last chapter

"On the morning of 6 November 1796 she rose at her usual hour.  She saw Zubov for a short time and then gave various instructions to her secreteries.  In the midstt of this work she broke off to retire breifly to her private inner chamber, and there, seated on the commode, she has a stroke.  Her valet , uneasy at not being summoned for so long, finally entered to find her lying on the floor.  She was unconcious and, despite the efforts of her doctors who were immediately summoned, she did not revive.
The Grand Duke and his family, her ministers and courtiers assembled in her bedchamber for the last vigil, and the city was muted by the news that the Empress was dying.  At her bedside her grandchildren to whom she had given so much love and care were in tears, as were most of the court.  The Grand Duke, however, had no tears to shed for the mother who had always spurned him and had deprived him of his throne for so many years.  It was even rumoured at court that the Empress had been on the point of excluding him from the succession and making her grandson, Alexander, her heir.  As they waited around the bed, it seemed possible that she might regain her senses and by a last testament displace her son, but he was saved this final humiliation at her hands.  Catherine did not regain conciousness and some thirty hours later died.
Thus, suddenly and unexpectedly, ended a reign of magnificence and triumphs, which complelled the admiration and at times the alarm of the whole civilized world."


phew :P that took ages to write out, lol
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Offline James_Davidov

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2004, 01:26:41 AM »
I am positive that whilst watching a documentry, which mentioned the rumoured death, they traced its roots to Prussian or Polish soldiers.....I'm not sure which, whatever army they were at or had been at war with I guess, anyway, It is the type of thing soldier would have come up with.  Anyway, Catherine was was an old woman at the time of her death, a horse having been dropped on her would have killed her straight away, but she lay on her death bed for i think a day.  Anyway, it could also be contributed to her love of riding, but this was a form of escape, particularly during her hostile marriage with Paul, besides, as everyone knows, she had many lovers, she didn't need a horse!
You are a member of the British royal family. We are never tired, and we all love hospitals.
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Offline Olga

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2004, 02:18:06 AM »
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The point made about appearance is however not really relevant. Very often very handsome parents have rather plain children and vice versa ;)


That's very true. Look at Queen Elizabeth and the Duke of Edinburgh.  ;D ;D ;D

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2004, 03:21:16 PM »
As to the paternity of Paul I, it should be noted that legal paternity rested with Peter III. He was Catherine's only legal husband, and thus the legal father of Paul I and his sister.

Catherine and others may speculate as to Paul's biological paternity, which is an entirely separate issue. This would not change the name of the House which is Romanov Holstein Gottorp.

Offline The_Ferret

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2004, 02:51:55 AM »
She was a hypocrite who talked about freedom while enslaving the majority of people. She let the vicious gangster Potemkin rob the treasury blind while people starved.

She murdered her husband and killed the boy-pretender Ivan.

When the peasantry rose up in desperation under the great freedom fighter, Pugachev, she sent her thugs to murder and pillage the peasant people. They impaled people and put their heads on pikes as a lesson.

She finally croaked while sitting on the toilet. Word was she was depressed about her grand daughter's marriage to a Swedish price.

Good riddance.

Offline isayhello2u

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2004, 11:29:24 AM »
Catherine the Great was said to have owned a necklace
made of about 30 large black pearls

I was wondering if there is any information on how or when she aquired it.  

Im interested in knowing if any or part of the pearls came from the Spanish, or had a Spanish connection
or a connection to Mexico.

Offline Annie

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2004, 03:00:13 PM »
Is that the one Zenaida Yussoupov loved so much and took into exile but Felix sold in Paris? (not talking about La Pelegrina/La Peregrina but the entire necklace Felix mentions in his book)

Offline isayhello2u

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2004, 10:11:48 AM »
Im not sure as I don't know any of the necklaces history
other than Catherine was said to have worn such a necklace

I am pretty sure though  there was only one such necklace
in the world  in the 1700's

Black pearls at the time were the rarest in the world with only two known sources.  

the gulf of  California (sea of Cortez)
off of  mexico's western coast
(which was spanish & is now part of mexico)

and the south pacific island area of  Tahiti
Tahiti was only discovered in the mid 1700's  


Offline Elisabeth

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2004, 03:38:51 PM »
I know that Mary, Queen of Scots had a famous necklace of black pearls. Elizabeth the Great of England, who was herself enormously fond of pearls, acquired it after Mary's execution. As far as I know, Elizabeth also inherited La Peregrina from her sister, Queen Mary, upon her death in 1558.
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Offline Annie

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2004, 11:29:45 AM »
Zenaida's black pearl necklace did belong to Catherine the Great.

Offline isayhello2u

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2004, 12:00:20 PM »
with the information you gave I was able to find out
yes the necklace was the same one that Felix sold in Paris.
How did Catherine Aquire it?

The pelegrina (or incomparable) Pearl once  owned and worn by Princess Zenaide Youssoupov   was found  100 yrs after
The Peregrina (the wanderer)  
The Peregrina was kept by spain until
the time of Napoleon where it wandered through
french and english hands until being purchased as
a gift for the american actress Elizabeth Taylor.  

Neither the Pelegrina nor the Peregrina were Black pearls.
they were more grey or silver.

Mary Queen of Scott's necklace  probably was not even close to the same size or quality as Catherine's
The gulf of California  the first source of True black pearls was not discovered  until 1533.
The first official spanish attempt at pearl diving in this area was in 1595. It was so remote and difficult to travel that the area was never fully mapped until 1700.  

Offline hikaru

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2005, 12:42:57 AM »
Her hair was dark brown , but in the lot of portraits when she was about 30 years old, her hairs looked as silver ones.
It is because of  a fashion those times to put a lot of the flour ( powder) on the hair.
For such purpose the women took old furniture ( old clothe's case) , took the case's ceiling off and used it like a shower cabin with flour instead of water.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2005, 08:09:58 PM »
I believe hikaru, that we both concur on this matter! ;)


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Offline Alexandra

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2005, 08:49:47 PM »
This child, although given the honorary patronymic Petrovna, was almost certainly the child of Catherine's liaison with Stanislaus Poniatowski, 'le beau Polonais,' of whom she writes in her Memoires. With childhood disease rampant everywhere,  and infant mortality rates quite high, it seems likely that the little Anne died of one or another fever in March, 1759. Catherine does not mention her, although she must have felt some pain at the loss of this daughter.
I have never seen a portrait of this child, although some exist of Grand Duke Paul in childhood. Since Catherine was extricating herself from the rather sticky coils of Poniatowski's fervent devotion to her, she may not have kept much in the way of mementoes from their liaiason. It was also unusual, in this period. to paint a  child quite that young (although cf. Mme Vigee-Lebrun's  studies of Marie Antoinette and her children). If anybody finds one, please post it! - thanks!