Author Topic: Empress Catherine II  (Read 117364 times)

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Offline kenmore3233

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #60 on: August 04, 2005, 12:16:25 PM »
Quote
:-[

I had a prof. once who told us a tale about her dying because a horse was being lowered onto her for very embarrassing reasons and the hoist broke and the horse crushed her. She was found on the floor unable to move or speak and then died. But recently someone told me this is not true, that she died on the toilet like Elvis. She had a stroke and fell in the floor naked but there was no horse. That story was started back then by Polish nobles she had stripped of their power to humiliate her memory in all of Europe. What is true?


The horse legend, although delightfully salacious, is definitely untrue.

Catherine died from some illness that I cannot remember. The illness manifested itself very quickly, and she spent her final days bedridden. If my memory serves me correctly she was in a coma during her final hours.

Offline hikaru

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #61 on: August 04, 2005, 12:42:37 PM »
She died of insult.
The reason were nerves .  She excited a lot when a Sweden prince cancelled the marriage ceremony with her beloved grand-daughter because of the religion problem. The Prince denied to sign a contract in the last moment , when all preparation were finished and the ceremony had to begun. Guests are gathered . It was awful.

Offline Prince_Christopher

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #62 on: August 04, 2005, 07:05:02 PM »
Unfortunately, I heard the same horse myth years ago from my Russian History Professor....Makes you wonder how many people are perpetuating that myth.
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Offline kenmore3233

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #63 on: August 04, 2005, 08:20:17 PM »
Quote
Unfortunately, I heard the same horse myth years ago from my Russian History Professor....Makes you wonder how many people are perpetuating that myth.


My information is drawn from a biography of Catherine titled "Catherine the Great", by Zoe Oldenburg. It was published in the 1940s.

I'm sure that any biography of Catherine will give you enough data to dispel the horse myth.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by kenmore3233 »

Offline hikaru

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #64 on: August 05, 2005, 09:29:54 AM »
I , in russia, never heard  about the horse myph .
As for the WC -  she died in that room so
it was Pushkin , who wrote quite funny , quite dirty satirical  verse about it.

Offline Romanov

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #65 on: September 09, 2005, 06:44:45 PM »
Does anybody have information abou the realationship between Vigee le brun and Empress Catherines familys?
Samuel J. Rodriguez

Offline Elisabeth

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #66 on: September 11, 2005, 12:44:38 PM »
Fascinating question, Romanov. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I was under the impression that Marie-Louise-Elisabeth Vigée-LeBrun only came to Russia during the reign of Paul. At least, she has much to say about him in her memoirs, whereas I don't recall her saying anything about Catherine (?).

If you haven't read them, Vigée-LeBrun's memoirs are an excellent source for this period. They're incredibly interesting and amusing, full of vignettes of the French court under Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette, and of the Russian court of Paul and Maria Feodorovna.
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because I have seen no other

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Offline hikaru

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #67 on: September 17, 2005, 02:38:55 AM »
Catherine did like the portrait of her two grand daughters painted by Vigee le Brun.
She said that two girls look like a monkeys.
So Catherine did not like the Vigee Le Brun who  did not
spend a lot of time in Russia  for this.

Offline bell_the_cat

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #68 on: September 26, 2005, 02:40:19 AM »
The memoirs of Mme Vigée Le Brun are online at:

ftp://http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/lebrun/memoirs/memoirs.html
Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after tomorrow. (Mark Twain)

Offline lancashireladandre

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #69 on: October 06, 2005, 02:11:09 AM »
Madame Vigee-Lebrun spent over 5 years in Russia leaving in 1801. Even then the main reason for her depature seems to have been the marriage of her idolised daughter Julie to Nigris a union she feared-rightly so -would end in disaster. Having put on a brave face despite the distress.  She determined to go back to western Europe. She is thought to have been starting a portrait of Catherine (who had greeted her warmly when she first arrived in St P) when the Empress died.Lada Nikolenko wrote a very interesting article with a catalogue of the russian portraits many years ago. Unfortunatey I don't remember the details except it could have been for the Gazette de Beaux Arts.

Offline lancashireladandre

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #70 on: October 06, 2005, 09:51:09 AM »
Catherine the Great's black pearl necklace was among a collection of historic  pearls taken out of Russia by Zenaida Youssoupoff when she fled with her family in the entourage of the Dowager Empress.There was a multi strand rosy pink pearl necklace with a huge ruby &brilliant clasp and another historic black pearl the Azra and the splendid Pelegrina (the last of the famed Youssoupoff gems to be sold by Felix in 1952).Within a short time of settling in Rome, Zenaida (whose charity was legendary)was in need of cash.She entrusted the Marie Antoinette earrings and the black pearls to Felix who after many adventures enroute sold them to Cartier in New York. They were then purchased by Mrs Peter Goelet Gerry. The wife of the senator from Rhode Island she  had previously been the widow of the Vanderbilt who had built the lovely Biltmore in North Carolina.Zenaida managed to hang onto the Azra and Pelegrina till her death in 1939. In 1935 she even lent them to an exhibition in London.The Azra was bought by Lydia Lady Deterding the wife of the founder of Shell Oil who already owned the Polar star. Lady D later lost the pearl at a reception in Paris being held for Princess Margaret !!!!!

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #71 on: October 21, 2005, 02:38:19 PM »
For anyone interested, BBC2 (UK and Ireland) are showing a documentary on Catherine II 'the Great' tonight, October 21 at 9pm local time.

Just thought I'd let you guys know!  :)
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #72 on: October 21, 2005, 03:06:36 PM »
Well, don't forget to tell us more about  this documentary  ;)

Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #73 on: October 21, 2005, 06:26:05 PM »
It was a docu-drama, and part 2 will be next week.

I was quite impressed. It was very good, making liberal use of Catherine's memoirs and being completely fair, not making her out to be either a saint or an ogre.

A really interesting point was a comment Catherine made in her memoirs, that a woman whom the Empress Elizabeth had sent to watch over her, gave her a long talk about being faithful etc to her husband, but then told her that some circumstances would warrant infidelity - that is, Elizabeth was so desparate for a Russian heir she virtually gave Catherine permission to mother a child by her lover!  :o

Of course, we don't know for sure that Peter wasn't the father of Paul, since he wasn't impotent, as he had other mistresses.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

PssMarieAmelie

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Re: Empress Catherine II
« Reply #74 on: October 22, 2005, 09:01:40 AM »
*sigh* Again, I wish I was in the UK....look at the first part of my sig...