Author Topic: No Stalin, no Hitler?  (Read 87519 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lass

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 343
    • View Profile
No Stalin, no Hitler?
« on: April 05, 2005, 12:26:12 PM »
Josef Stalin or Adolf Hitler?

Hitler seems to be regarded as THE example of cruelty and tyranny. Do you think he was worse than Stalin?

(I hope this isn't out of place on this board.)

Offline LisaDavidson

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 2665
    • View Profile
Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2005, 01:07:21 PM »
I vote for Stalin because a) he murdered more people - i.e. 40 million dead, making him the most prolific mass murderer in history, b) he was in power longer, from 1924 - 1953, so he was able to make more people suffer for a longer period of time and c) everyone gets how evil Hitler was, but there are still people in the former USSR who want Stalin back!

Offline hikaru

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1123
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2005, 01:16:46 PM »
Taking into consideration WWII I vote for Hitler for 1000%.
Stalin did not burn people.

If you will compare Stalin or Lenin I will say that the Lenin was worse for 100%. I think that nobody can not count yet how many people was murdered during the time of revolution.
(I do not want to say the Stalin was good but)

Offline Lass

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 343
    • View Profile
Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2005, 02:23:43 PM »
Good points. :)

I'd be inclined to say Stalin was worse. For example, the famine that he created killed more people than we will ever know for sure. And that was just one atrocity. Altogether, he killed more people than Hitler, and the cult that surrounded him lasted for many years after his death. In addition, he brainwashed at least one generation with his ideas.

On the other hand, Hitler started a war that spread all the way round the globe, destroying not only the lives of his own people and those in neighbouring countries, but that of people worldwide. American, African and Indian troops died in WW2. In addition, he totally wrecked the economy and structure of Germany, leaving it in a situation that could have turned out as disastrous as post-WW1 Germany.

Still, I would tend to think that Hitler was individually resopnsible for WW2, while Stalin was just a successor to the Bolsheviks who first took over Russia...

It's not an easy question!


Offline Elisabeth

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2131
    • View Profile
Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2005, 02:44:48 PM »
I would say that Hitler and Stalin virtually tie for Most Evil Person Ever. As previously stated, Stalin was responsible for more deaths. We should also pause to remember that if it had not been for his treaty with Nazi Germany, carving up Poland (the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact), WWII might never even have started, because Hitler would have been faced with fighting a two-front war from the very beginning (in 1939 instead of 1941).

On the other hand, Hitler invented the "Final Solution," the deliberate attempt to exterminate every Jewish person in the world down to the last man, woman, and child - that's a magnitude of evil that I think even Stalin did not quite achieve. True, Stalin sentenced entire peoples to all but certain death, but there was always that slight chance one might escape, or one's children might, because the total extermination of ethnic minorities was not Stalin's ultimate goal - only their complete subjugation to the Soviet system.

So basically we're being asked to choose between two devils, and I guess that here I would follow the example of most Soviet citizens after the Nazi invasion of 1941 - who, much as they hated Stalin, eventually decided that of the two choices, Hitler or Stalin, Stalin was the lesser evil, the lesser devil.  
... I love my poor earth
because I have seen no other

-- Osip Mandelshtam

Offline Laura Mabee

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2175
    • View Profile
    • Frozentears.Org
Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2005, 03:02:14 PM »
Interesting question. Both men have a loaded history of cruelty. I wouldn't know who to pick

Offline Lass

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 343
    • View Profile
Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2005, 03:09:26 PM »
But, bear in mind, Hitler regime ended in 1945. Stalin was in power for longer, and the affects of his rule were to last for decades.

Maybe I am going down the path of which results were worse... You're right, Elisabeth; Hitler killed the Jews because they were Jews. Stalin generally killed those who were a threat to him. Then again the millions that died in the famine were innocents. I don't think I'd be as charitable to Stalin. ;)

Offline hikaru

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1123
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2005, 03:22:31 PM »
Pls try to imagine: if Stalin did not stop the Hitler and did not save the Europe from Hitler, you never could not get the chance to see St. Petersburg and the palaces around -
Hitler had the plan to ruin the city and suburbs at 1942.
(He made Barbarossa plan , according to which he planned to win till the beginning of 1942)

Offline Lass

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 343
    • View Profile
Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2005, 04:34:35 PM »
Hitler certainly was an evil man, and I am sure that he would not have stopped at Europe. Having conquered Britain and Russia, he would doubtless have extended the boundaries of his Third Reich across the Atlantic.

Stalin ran his full course; Hitler, mercifully, was stopped short.

Offline Elisabeth

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2131
    • View Profile
Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2005, 04:38:23 PM »
It's true what Hikaru says. Hitler planned the total destruction of St. Petersburg and Moscow, as symbols of hated Slavic culture.  And after he had finished exterminating the Jews, he planned to exterminate the Slavs. It is not well known, but the first deadly experiments with Zyklon B at Auschwitz were actually done on Russian prisoners of war. Literally millions of Russian prisoners of war died of starvation in Nazi camps, as part of a deliberate policy of extermination.
... I love my poor earth
because I have seen no other

-- Osip Mandelshtam

Offline Lass

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 343
    • View Profile
Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2005, 05:07:29 PM »
Too true. He put the Slavs on an equal level (at least almost anyway) with the Jews.

Offline felix

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 657
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2005, 05:53:46 PM »
Stalin,he was our ally,so the evil things he did,didnt get noticed,but Hitler what can one say about him! Maybe they crossed each other out.

Offline Lass

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 343
    • View Profile
Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2005, 06:45:28 AM »
Quote
Stalin,he was our ally,so the evil things he did,didnt get noticed

Seems so awful to think that Britain associated with him. But that's the way of war, I suppose. Certainly, after the war, divisions became very apparent.

rskkiya

  • Guest
Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2005, 09:19:28 AM »
     Hitler was by far the most wicked of the twentieth century --but if we want to run the gamut of history we can always add Oliver Cromwell to the top ten. Stalin was no angel, but I am persuaded that on this (rather silly list) Hitler has the pride of place.

rskkiya

Offline Lass

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 343
    • View Profile
Re: No Stalin, no Hitler?
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2005, 09:37:54 AM »
Oliver Cromwell? :o Sorry, no no!! :P