Author Topic: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia  (Read 48747 times)

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Offline AGRBear

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Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
« on: April 07, 2005, 02:08:32 PM »
How many know that there were American Troops in Russia who were sent to fight the Bolshviks during the Revolution and Civil War?

I'd like for this thread to be dedicated to these Americans.

I'd also like to learn alittle about the American involvement in the campaigns against the Bolsheviks.

Next to me I have the memoirs of a Private First Class Donald E. Carey who was from  Custer, Michigan, 12th Co.,  3rd Batt.  [p. 7] who with his group left  for Camp Mills then  under the flag Co. E. 399th  Infantry sailed on the HMT (His Majesty's transport) Northumberland, which had been docked in Hoboken, N.J., on 21 July 1918 9  [p. 25].  Reached England on 3 Aug. 1918.  Boarded the  HMT Nagory [p. 37],  a merchant ship that usually traveled between England and India and left port on the [27th Aug]  27th of Aug..

"Our American Expeditionary Force consisted of the 339th Infantry regiment; 1st Battalion, 310th engineers;  337th Ambulance Company; and 337 th Field Hospital Company, all under Col. George E. Steward, U.S. Army, commanding officer of the 339th Infantry."

With Carey's ship the Nagory were thee others , the Somali, Tydeus and the Czar plus a small convoy of four or five small British vessels.  In all there were about 4,477 men of all ranks detached from the 85th Division on the Nagory, Somali and Tydeus.

They took "A zigzag course ...across the North Sea,", to the Norwegian Sea and around Norway to Barents [sic] and into the White Sea... [pps 39-41] across the Dvina Bay and up the Dvina river.... passed Archangel and stoped on the east bank of the Dvina river at Smolny.  On 5 Sept Carey and the others stepped off the gangplank onto Russian soil.

FIGHTING THE BOLSHEVIKS, The Russian War Memoir of Private First Class Donald E. Carey  US Army, 1918-1919.



AGRBear



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Offline Arleen

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Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2005, 02:43:59 PM »
Bear this is a wonderful topic.  I am a Civil War fan but I have never heard of this.  I shall be watching this thread closely to see what I can LEARN!
..A

Offline Duke_of_Kent

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Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2005, 09:48:32 PM »
http://www.umich.edu/~bhl/bhl/mhchome/polarb.htm

This link might be of interest to you...

Offline lexi4

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Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2005, 07:07:37 PM »
Ok, here is what little I know. In the summer of 1918 President Wilson (hereafter referred to aws PW) decided that the U.S needed to intervene in Siberia to protect its $1 billion investment of guns etc. left along the Trans-Siberian Railroad. PW approved sending 8,000 men to Siberia. The man he chose to lead those troops was A U.S. General William S. Graves.
Graves had just become a general. He was expecting an assginment to Europe. I have a photo of  Graves and some of him with his staff, but I can't figure out how to post it on this sight. Wilson did pay lipservice to "spreading democracy" etc. But mostly, sending Graves' men was to protect the money. You know what they say, follow the money. Wilson's orders to Graves were to protect allied military stores, guard the TSR, and help out the Czech legion. He was told NOT to interfer in Russian internal policy.
Graves was born in Texas in 1865. He was also a graduate of West Point. GRABEAR, I don't know if this is what you are looking for on this thread, but I have read a little but about Graves so I thought I would toss it in the pot.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline lexi4

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Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2005, 07:11:07 PM »
AGRBear,
Sorry for the mis-spelling of you name in the above post.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2005, 01:35:25 PM »
To correct the spelling, at the top of each of your posts are the words "modify" click on it and it'll take you to your post.  Make correction, click on "save" below and presto, correction is completed.

If you want to post a photo, go to photobucket which is free.  Do your sign-up free part.  

http://photobucket.com/

They will then show you your own place and from their you pull in a file off of your desktop and or folder where you have the photo waiting and ready, then click on "submit", wait and wait a little longer then scroll down and you will see the photo.  Under it will be a URL, copy it and head back here.

Above the post box you see a line of faces then above that you see a line of symbols.  The fourth from the left looks like a small snapshot.  Click on it.

And this sill appear in your post>

With the URL you've copied place it between [img]URLXXX[/imag]
and that will hold in your photo.

After you're done with your post, click "Post" below or "Preview" and you'll see you've accomplished your first photo incert.

There will be no stopping you then  ;D  .....

Good luck.

AGRBear

PS Forgot to say, yes, many of us would like to learn more about Graves.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline lexi4

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Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2005, 08:14:16 PM »
I agree with elizaveta. The books she recommends are great too. Also, President Wilson ordered. But this topic is about the troops that fought in Russia and not the motivations of the U.S. government Maybe that is a discussion for another day. Anyway, another U.S. Serviceman sent to Russia was Col. Charles Morrow. He commanded the Twenty-seventh Infantry Regiment. They were sent to guard a section of the TSR that stretched from Mysovaya to Verkhne-Udinsk. I don't know a lot about him, but have wondered if he was related to Anne Morrow Lindbergh.
.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by lexi4 »
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline Coldstream

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Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2005, 02:26:30 PM »
The main reasons for the Allied intervention in North Russia and Siberia were a desire to keep Russia in the war, fear of Bolshevik domination, and the possibility of German submarine bases being established in North Russia.  Allied military stores falling into the hands of the "Reds" was also a concern.  In May 1918, the old cruiser USS OLYMPIA (Admiral Dewey's flagship at the Battle of Manila Bay, 1898) arrived in Murmansk to assist British forces already there (Royal Navy and Royal Marine Light Infantry).  Sailors from the OLYMPIA were engaged in firefights with Bolsheviks south of Archangel.  They were eventually joined by elements from the American 85th Division (339th Infantry Regiment, 1st Bn 310th Engineers, 337th Field Hospital and the 337th Ambulance Company).  The force would eventually number 5500 men.  The troops were withdrawn in June 1919 after suffering numerous casualties from combat and disease.  The 31st Infantry Regiment served in Siberia (Vladivostok) alongside troops from Britain, France and Japan.

It is interesting to note that the bulk of American infantry were armed with the Russian Moisin-Nagant 7.62 rifle, large quantities of which were manufactured by the Remington and Westinghouse companies in the United States for the Imperial government.  British Lewis guns and Vickers machine guns were also used.

Coldstream

Offline Coldstream

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Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2005, 02:29:54 PM »
There exists an interesting book on the subject of the American intervention:

    The Midnight War: The American Intervention in Russia, 1918-1920 by Richard Goldhurst, McGraw-Hill, 1978.


Offline AGRBear

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Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2005, 12:31:39 PM »
Quote
I suggest "America's Secret War Against the Bolsheviks"  by
David Fogelson.  There are many, many books on this subject.  They deal with Allied intervention in the south, north and east of Russia presumably to guard the Trans Siberian Railway in the east.  It was much more than that, of course.  Like the French, Brits, and Japanese, the US was committed to defeating the Bolsheviks.  If they had any interest in Nicholas and his family, it was probably fleeting and  coincidental.  
General Graves left a good autiobio, and the Hoover Institute is filled with memoirs, manuscripts and other accounts left by both officers and men who took part in the American Allied Expeditionary Force.  The account of David Barrows, head of US Intelligence in that area, can be found in the Bancroft Library, UCBerkeley.

I'm reminded of a professor of Russian history who once told me that it is not adequate to focus on one event in one time period, but one must understand the entire picture.  I doubt seriously that the Allied Intervention had anything to do with the dead Czar or any attempted "rescue",  but it is vastly important to understanding the events -- economic, political and military -- of those years.   E


A little more about Gen. William Graves is found in McNeal's Book  THE PLOTS TO RESCUE THE TSAR p. 145:

"..one of the few surving after-the-fact documents is a strange dispatch from Major Slaughter to General William Graves, Commanding Officer of the American Expeditionary Force in Sibera and the same man who sent the "family seven time" telegrams, five months after 17 July. And it is in Graves telegram p. 225 where Graves talks about Gen. Romanovsky and "family".

Some think "family" was code for the IF.  However, if this was true, the Americans were talking about the IF being alive in Dec. of 1918 which was five months after the CHEKA announced the execution of Nicholas II.

According to a "special cipher" the telegrams held a code within a code which was labeled then "Special Green".

I'm not sure  what all this means.  It could be referring to the IF or it could be telegrams about Japan or something completely different.  So, I'm just posting it here and let you dig into the evidence farther if you'd like.

I'd like to thank everyone who has posted that I'm glad you, too, are interested.  And the link Duke of Kent gave us is great:

Quote
http://www.umich.edu/~bhl/bhl/mhchome/polarb.htm

This link might be of interest to you...


AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline lexi4

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Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2005, 11:06:48 PM »
That is very interesting AGRBear. Thank you for passing on the information.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline lexi4

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Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2005, 11:08:11 PM »
Quote
One should read the entire Graves file  to get a complete picture and not select certain dispatches to bolster a position.  One should also read material supplied by his attending officers and men and the diplomatic corps who worked with him.  General Graves was once described as a park policeman sent to put out a war.


What are you referring to elizaveta? I don't see anyone trying to bolster a position, just sharing information.
Can you be more specific on your reading suggestions? Perhaps the name of the book or books to which you are referring?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by lexi4 »
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2005, 11:14:20 AM »
Quote
One should read the entire Graves file  to get a complete picture and not select certain dispatches to bolster a position.  One should also read material supplied by his attending officers and men and the diplomatic corps who worked with him.  General Graves was once described as a park policeman sent to put out a war.


I'm sorry to hear one of our American officers was described "as a park policeman".  

I. like lexi4, do not understand what you mean by bostering a position.  If you look at my first post, this is about ALL Americans who fought Bolsheviks in Russia.  Graves was just one of many.

AGRBear

PS  Links which tell us more about Gen. Graves:
1. http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/view/GG/fgr16.html
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2005, 11:36:58 AM »
Links which gives us information about the Americans fighting the Bolshseviks in Russia:
#Allies Intervention In Russian Civil War:
http://www.regiments.org/wars/ww1/russia.htm
#Robert Willlett's Report:
http://hnn.us/articles/5118.html
#Americans in Siberia and Northern Russia:
http://www.militaria.com/8th/WW1/siberia.html
#Navy- North Russian Expdtitionary Forces:  ships photographs, letters, documents from Allies and Bolsheviks:
http://www.naval-history.net/WW1z05NorthRussia.htm
#Frederick C Giffin: Trans-Siberian Railway in the World History -
http://www.icc.ru/fed/transsib.html
#Wars, Causes, Timeline, Russian Civil War
http://www.regiments.org/wars/ww1/russia.htm#chronology
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Americans Fought Bolsheviks in Russia
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2005, 05:01:28 PM »
Everyone is giving us a great start.  Thanks.

Here is a map showing areas around Archangle where the Allies [British, American, Canadian, Italian, Serb and Finnish troops] were in 1918-1919:



Petrozavodsk was a little more than 100 milies from Petrograd [St. Persburg] on the north side and the furthest advance of anti-Bolshevik troops by Oct. 1919 on the south south west was about 25 miles....

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152