Author Topic: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson  (Read 134713 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Greg_King

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
    • Atlantis Magazine
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2004, 09:33:17 PM »
Quote
Dude! She mad! she many times run on a rooftop naked, i heard this with my own ears [it was on the History on damend] .

JM do you really think Anna is the Grand Duchess?

Plus Felix didn't get close to her. He didn't try to kill her. even i well not get to close to an insane woman.

In the early 1920;s she tried to kill herself! if anyone trys to her , it would have be herself.

[if anyone get upest from reading my message,.. 'sorry' but thats what i think]


With respect, see my above post-she didn't just "make this up"-witnesses to what happened refer to an agitated Felix bellowing something unintelligible at AA running screaming; both were prone to exaggerations, but clearly some incident took place.

I wonder where you get the idea that AA was insane?  Every psychiatrist and expert who examined her in the 1920s clearly found that she was NOT insane-this is simply a myth.

I am quite curious about your statement that she was running about naked on some roof.  Where was this, and when?  I daresay I know a fair amount about her case and this is certainly news to me.  And, as an aside-having frequently been on any number of shows on the History Channel-believe me, television programs and their contents are not, by virtue of simply being televised, true.

Greg King

Offline Janet_W.

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1888
  • ...And no one's grief has ever passed you by...
    • View Profile
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2004, 10:06:57 PM »
As someone who has seen her father, an Alzheimer's patient, die by inches--exhibiting the eccentric behavior that some people find either "hot" or a "hoot"--I can tell you that it is not at all amusing for those who love them.

In recent years I also have seen other folks--friends of my parents, and friends of my own--"go wack," and it is not funny.

I certainly have admired older people who, by a combination of good health habits, fortunate genetics, and the luck of the draw, exhibit very much the same vim, vigor and sass they possessed in their youth. I know a number of these people personally, and I admired another such person from afar for many years. But anyone who read last year's book about Katharine Hepburn, written by her friend A. Scott Berg, knows that even Ms. Hepburn's final years were spent in confusion and sometimes fear, knowing that those who were younger and "in charge" (i.e., doctors) could take her life and turn it inside out if they perceived her incompetent.  

Bette Davis used to say that "old age ain't for sissies," and indeed it is not. Loosing control of one's body is bad enough, but when the mind begins to malfunction and turn the person into a charicature of what he or she once was, the rest of us need to be there to comfort, reassure, and protect, much as we do for small children.

Whatever Anna Anderson was or was not in her twenties, thirties and forties, in her old age she was a beleagured individual who needed gentle, nonjudgmental treatment. Finding amusement in a younger person's trauma and/or mental illness and then an older person's senility is, to say the very least, unkind.

And incidentally, it also may be bad karma. To quote a truism, "what comes around goes around."  Or to quote another famous statement, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."




Offline Michelle

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 998
  • No more school forever!  Well,except college.
    • View Profile
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2004, 10:21:13 PM »
Oh, I don't think Robert and JM meant that they enjoy the sufferings of old people when they're clearly having problems.  Probably what they meant (although I'm sure they can speak for themselves ;)) is that eccentric senior citizens are very interesting people.  Not necessarily those who are severely ill as in Alzheimer's and other conditions, but old folks who have their own interesting way of thinking and seeing the world.  I'm pretty sure they weren't expressing any sadism.  :)

Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1959
  • Olga.Tatiana.Maria.Anastasia + Alexei
    • View Profile
    • Romanovs of Russia
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2004, 11:27:08 PM »
I didn't made up 'AA running on a roof' i have heard it many times [ i didn't know the channel it was on] but now it on the movie  Anastasia [the old one with Ingrid B] there's a bio on Anastasia [on dvd] .

I'M NOT KIDDING!!!!! IT TRUE!

AA did try to kill herself and i don't believe Felix try to kill AA...

What i heard is what heard!  I will NEVER lie about those things,............

 End of story!
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 09:59:47 PM by Alixz »

Offline KayTanaka

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2004, 03:03:52 AM »
Dear Janet W,

Ditto. Thank you for your kind and astute post.  As usual, right to the point. Many Blessings, Kay.

Offline Greg_King

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
    • Atlantis Magazine
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2004, 04:29:59 AM »
Quote
I didn't made up 'AA runing on a roof' i hae heared it many times [ i didn't know the chaniel it was on] but now it on the movie  Anastasia [the old one with Ingird B] theres a bio on Anastasia [on dvd] .

I'M NOT KIDDING!!!!! IT TRUE!

plus now I'M upest!  >:( [ I rarly get upest!] No sorries,.etc,....but ' AA did try to kill herself and i don't believe Felix try to kill AA...

What i heard is what heard!  I will NEVER lie about those things,............

 End of story!


As I wrote you in a private message, I never suggested you made this up or lied-I merely said I have never heard it, and added that simply because it appears on TV does not mean it is true.  I have no doubt you heard it-but it is most definitely NOT true.  I suspect what you heard was some variation (since I don't know how it was related or by whom, I can only assume that it was garbled) of an incident that took place while AA was staying with Annie Burr Jennings in New York; there was a fight (too long to discuss here) and Miss Jennings called an asylum and paid them a sum of money to come and collect AA; seeing the men coming for her, AA fled out of her bedroom window onto the roof.  This incident took place only once, it did not happen "many times," nor was AA naked.  That is the truth behind what you presumably heard-and again-it underlines my point-because something is on TV does not make it true.  The History Channel obviously got their version very wrong, which is unfortunate since it is something anyone could have checked by simply looking in Peter Kurth's book.

Greg King

Offline Robert_Hall

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6648
  • a site.
    • View Profile
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2004, 08:05:22 AM »
Please, I was not making fun or light of any one's state of health.  I have been called to aid in calming down "upset" older people several times in the past. Including older people running around naked in the streets.
I have always enjoyed working with older folks, one can learn so much about a lot of things, no matter what state their mental health may be in. And the sense of humor !! Hidden gems  one can glean, just from patience and listening.
 I have nothing but respect for those folks, and they do NOT want pity or condescending "baby sitting". That is really disgusting, talking to them like they were still in diapers, even if they are, for various reasons
JM has demonstrated his own respect as well, he is very astute about old folks, his language may be different, after all, he is much younger than most of us !!
So do not be in such a rush to judge.
Now, I have never heard of  AA running around naked on a roof either. I think Greg's explanation is probably correct.  I have the standard books on the subject, but have never really explored  AA any further than those. It certainly was not mentioned in them. Even the book with all the sensational claims- Lovell was it ?- did not come up with any such scene as I recall.
Cheers,
Robert
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 10:01:06 PM by Alixz »
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Michelle

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 998
  • No more school forever!  Well,except college.
    • View Profile
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2004, 02:43:07 PM »
I have that very same DVD of the 1956 film with Ingrid Bergman as Anastasia with the bio of the grand duchess on it, and I heard it on there too.  I'm not doubting what Greg said by any means.  But for some reason I thought I also read it in Peter Kurth's The Riddle of Anna Anderson. ??? :-/  But from what Greg said, the rumor is most likely not true.  :)

Offline Janet_W.

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1888
  • ...And no one's grief has ever passed you by...
    • View Profile
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2004, 03:18:09 PM »
The anecdote about Anna Anderson on the roof was mentioned on the A & E Biography of Anastasia. It may have been mentioned elsewhere as well.

I realize that my post may have come across as far too serious. But lately I've been taking special notice of the behaviors of both young people and old people, and guess what . . . they aren't that much different!  Youthful eccentricities, however, are generally overlooked--after all, you're just "making a statement"-- whereas the eccentricities of old age are often held up to ridicule.

I think a lot of this has to do with fear. None of us want to become limited, either mentally or physically, so we make a joke out of old age issues.  Also, we all are--to a certain extent--in denial. "It's not going to happen to me," was what my mom used to say. Well, guess what.  :o

Yes, of course, viewing people as their age happens all the time. I was a teacher, and boy oh boy, is there lots of stereotypical thinking out there about how fourth graders behave this way, second graders behave that way, etc.  And there is some reality to that approach, because the various stages of mental and physical development are tied to the aging process, whether we're talking about a toddler, someone in their forties, or a so-called "senior citizen."

Most of us would agree, however, that each of us are the sum total of an infiinte number of things. Not just our age, but our genetics, gender, parenting, environment, early childhood experiences, culture, religion, philosophy, education, sexuality--and many many other factors.

When I see photos and film footage of Anna Anderson, my first thought is not so much whether she was Anastasia, but a concern for how she was managing at that particular time in her life, and how she was being treated. Her long life,  lived very much in limbo, also reminds me of how so many people are displaced during revolution, war, etc.  Aside from the obvious destruction and unavoidable statistics re: those wounded and killed, war brings about a profound geographical and mental dislocation for countless civilians . . . and this dislocation, which often sets the stage for mental illness, reverberates for decades and generations to come.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Janet_W. »

Offline BattleAngel

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • I plan to live forever--So far so good!
    • View Profile
    • The Color Guard
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2004, 09:24:26 PM »
Well said Janet_W.
A culture that practically deifies anyone in the 14-35 age range and virtually ignores the existance and gifts/talents of older adults doesn't help with cross-generational appreciation either.

Offline Annie

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4756
    • View Profile
    • Anna Anderson Exposed!
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2004, 11:24:06 AM »
I'm having a hard time seeing Felix as a vicious killer. I haven't read the "Marina" letters yet, but everything else makes him seem so non violent. Even though he killed Rasputin, the people who knew him didn't look at him that way. From the diary of Maurice Paleologue days after the murder:

Judging by the little I know, it is the presence of Purishkevitch which gives the drama its real meaning and high political interest. The Grand Duke Dimitri is a young man about town of twenty-five, active, a fervent patriot and capable of courage in the hour of battle, but flighty and impulsive; it seems to me he plunged blindly into this adventure. Prince Felix Yussupov is twenty-nine and gifted with quick wits and ęsthetic tastes; but his dilettantism is rather too prone to perverse imaginings and literary representations of vice and death, so I am afraid that he has regarded the murder of Rasputin mainly as a scenario worthy of his favourite author, Oscar Wilde. In any case his instincts., countenance and manner make. him much closer akin to the hero of Dorian Grey than to Brutus or Lorenzaccio.

Letter from Ella to Nicholas soon after the murder:

Arrived here to the news that Felix killed him, my little Felix I knew as a child, who all his life feared to kill, who did not wish to become military as to never have the occasion to shed blood- and I image what he must have gone through to do this, and how moved by patriotism he decided to save his sovereign and country from what we were all suffering. I telegraphed Dmitri not knowing where the boy was-but got no answer, since then it is in kind of silence....crime remains crime, but this one being of a special kind, can be counted as a duel and it is considered a patriotic act and for these deeds the law I think needs altering...

They don't seem to see him as violent, and they knew him. I also can't imagine him causing any kind of scene with so many people downstairs. He might have said something rude to her like 'frightful playactress' but I can't see him charging her threatening bodily harm.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline Greg_King

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
    • Atlantis Magazine
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2004, 05:14:55 PM »
Quote
I'm having a hard time seeing Felix as a vicious killer. I haven't read the "Marina" letters yet, but everything else makes him seem so non violent. Even though he killed Rasputin, the people who knew him didn't look at him that way.... He might have said something rude to her like 'frightful playactress' but I can't see him charging her threatening bodily harm.


Nicholas and Alexandra certainly looked at him in THIS way!  Felix not only plotted, but cold-bloodedly befriended, lured, and then murdered, Rasputin-which says more about his ability to be violent, cold, and calculating than anything else.  And in the situation with Nicholas and Marina, he acted in such a reckless manner, egging on the situation, that I can't believe there wasn't a part of him that was thrilled with the adventure and dance with dance.

Having coldly murdered someone once, I don't see it as quite the stretch you do to think he might well have brought this up to AA-something along the lines of, "I've acted once before to save the honor of the Romanovs..." and such a thing would be quite in character, and could easily have been taken as a threat by her.

Greg King

Offline Robert_Hall

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6648
  • a site.
    • View Profile
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2004, 05:51:07 PM »
Greg, I have no doubt that you are correct in your assesment of the man [Felix Y.]. I think I told you that some time ago I met a couple of gentlemen that actually knew him, in later years. [you might have even met them in research for your book, if they were still alive.]  They loved telling Felix stories, now that he was dead ! It seems that they had heard the Rasputin bit so many times they were a bit sick of it. Also, he never failed to remind people that he won the famous MGM lawsuit !! Lest they get any new ideas about him I guess.
My impression, from them, that although they were genuinely fond of the guy, they also maintained that he could be nasty & coniving until the last.
Cheers,
Robert
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Annie

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4756
    • View Profile
    • Anna Anderson Exposed!
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2004, 06:50:16 PM »
Oh yes, N & A saw him as a 'monster' for killing their beloved 'friend.' In Nicholas's diary he recorded the day of the funeral for 'unforgettable Gregory' 'killed by monsters at the home of F. Yussoupov' The word monster gets translated to different things in different accounts but the meaning is there. I don't know if N felt as strongly about this as A, who wanted Felix and Dmitri shot dead.

She saw him as a saint, while others, even the religious Ella, saw him as a devil, which makes the story so interesting and one more thing we'll never know the truth on.

Offline Karentje

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 75
  • So, we'll go no more a roving...
    • View Profile
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2004, 08:09:02 AM »
Hi everyone

I'm certainly no expert on Romanov affairs, and I have only read a couple of books about them, but in defence of Felix I'd just like to mention that according to Edvard Radzinsky (Russian historian) Rasputin's actual murderer - the man who pulled the trigger - was Dmitri, and not Felix.
Radzinsky had acces to a lot of new files and information and his biography of Rasputin is a very recent one.
I believe that Felix,however unpleasant a person he may have been at times, was no cold-blooded murderer and, consequently, I find it hard to believe he tried to kill AA.

Karen