Author Topic: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson  (Read 138849 times)

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Offline Annie

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Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #90 on: November 10, 2004, 06:10:26 AM »
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Annie-
            Concerning Pierre Gilliard- He was a regular in the palace, but as a tutor he was an employee, a servant of sorts- a high-placed servant, but still a servant. He would not have been considered a personal friend, with the same relaxed familiarity as Lili had with the family.


Being their personal schoolteacher for 13 years would put him ahead of any lady in waiting in my book. I was very close to teachers I had for only one year, I can image having the same teacher for 13 years would have been even a better chance for  a close relationship. My mother and her siblings had the same teacher at a country schoolhouse for 8 years and they always remembered each other.


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Now, as far as Pierre Gilliard is concerned- Whether one is pro-AA or anti-AA, it cannot be denied that he [Gilliard] behaved himself, during the Anastasia trials, in a perfectly beastly and unscholarly manner. Whether AA was Anastasia or not, Gilliard was in the pay of the Grand Duke of Hesse, and later on attempting to save his own reputation. He really did not care whether she was Anastasia or not, but was perfectly willing to sacrifice her, either way, for his own selfish ends. His behaviour, the last time he testified [before his death] proves this. At that time it was revealed that he lied, supressed evidence, and destroyed pertinent documents. Whether AA was Anastasia or not Pierre Gilliard's testimony of rejection is invalidated by the fact that he was a despicably petty and self-serving man.


I don't believe that of him. Ernie died in 1937, do you really think he'd go to so much trouble all those years, testifying way up until age 80, just to be mean? ESPECIALLY if she really was his beloved Stasi? No, I think he fought AA so hard out of love and memory for the real Anastasia and the IF. He didn't like the farce and wanted it to stop.

   
   

Offline ISteinke

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Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #91 on: November 10, 2004, 06:38:02 AM »
Lili Dehn was not just a "lady in waiting." She was one of the two closest friends of the Empress.

Offline Annie

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Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #92 on: November 10, 2004, 07:00:11 AM »
I know but it still doesn't make AA any more believable to me. Like Lanie said, she got things wrong and Lili said oh well she's traumatized. I think she wanted to believe it so much she did but it wasn't real.

Speaking of 2 best friends, I find it oddly suspicious Anna V. was never asked to meet AA. My suspicions are that AV was THE closest to the family, even going on cruises and outings with them, and a definite NO from AV would have hurt AA's case so they avoided her. It would have been interesting to see her reaction.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 10:16:44 PM by Alixz »

Offline Lanie

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Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #93 on: November 10, 2004, 11:08:06 AM »
One also must remember with the memoirs, ie with Gleb Botkin, the are often embellished.  Botkin never spent nearly so much time with the IF as he claimed.  I do not think Lili was nearly as close as Anna, Olga A., Gilliard etc were to the IF.

Offline stepan

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Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #94 on: November 10, 2004, 05:21:31 PM »
Grand duchess Olga wasenīt the only close relative who met Anna Anderson. Princess Irene.her aunt met her as early as 1922 outside Berlin. The princess did not say who she was as she wanted to see her reaction. Suddenly AA ran away from the company and afterwards refused to speak to aunt Irene. Itīs not the kind of behaviour you would expect from someone who wanted help and recogntion. This was her first great chance and she didenīt take it. Why? I think itīs obvious that she didenīt want to get recognized because she wasenīt the one she claimed. And what about her old English teacher Gibbes? He met her in 1954 in Paris.  He told that when he entered the room where she was she looked at him with suspicion,expressed no joy to see him,said very little and asked no questions. She was holding a newspaper in front of her face so only the upper part of her face could be seen. He said he was quite satisfied she was an imposter. He is also supposed to have said : If she is Grand duchess Anastasia then I am a Chinaman!
Olga Alexandrovna said about the meeting in Berlin  in 1925 that "as soon as I sat down by that bed in the Mommsen Nursing home,I knew that i was looking at a stranger.The spiritual bond between Anastasia and myself was so strong that neither time nor any ghastly experience could have interfered with it. I donīt know what name to give that feeling but I do know that it was wholly absent. I left Denmark with some hope in my heart. I left Berlin with all hope extinguished."

Offline BaronessSophie

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Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #95 on: November 11, 2004, 08:11:25 AM »
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Grand duchess Olga wasenīt the only close relative who met Anna Anderson. Princess Irene.her aunt met her as early as 1922 outside Berlin. The princess did not say who she was as she wanted to see her reaction. Suddenly AA ran away from the company and afterwards refused to speak to aunt Irene. Itīs not the kind of behaviour you would expect from someone who wanted help and recogntion. This was her first great chance and she didenīt take it. Why? I think itīs obvious that she didenīt want to get recognized because she wasenīt the one she claimed. And what about her old English teacher Gibbes? He met her in 1954 in Paris.  He told that when he entered the room where she was she looked at him with suspicion,expressed no joy to see him,said very little and asked no questions. She was holding a newspaper in front of her face so only the upper part of her face could be seen. He said he was quite satisfied she was an imposter. He is also supposed to have said : If she is Grand duchess Anastasia then I am a Chinaman!
Olga Alexandrovna said about the meeting in Berlin  in 1925 that "as soon as I sat down by that bed in the Mommsen Nursing home,I knew that i was looking at a stranger.The spiritual bond between Anastasia and myself was so strong that neither time nor any ghastly experience could have interfered with it. I donīt know what name to give that feeling but I do know that it was wholly absent. I left Denmark with some hope in my heart. I left Berlin with all hope extinguished."


That is very interesting stuff, do you have any more from that book?

Offline BaronessSophie

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Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #96 on: November 11, 2004, 08:15:42 AM »
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           I have serious questions concerning Baroness Buxhoeveden and her rejection of AA. According to the literature that I have read AA accused BB of treacherously betraying the family in Siberia. As far as I know there was never any desire [on AA's part] to be recognized by Sophie. From the moment the Anastasia controversy began she [AA] detested her [Sophie]. If Sophie truly did behave herself, in Siberia, in a despicable way, there was good reason for her to issue a verdict of "not Anastasia." It covered her butt, so to speak.




I can't believe this on her! She is a favorite of mine and I love her books. She wouldn't betray the family and she loved OTMA!

Offline Angie_H

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Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #97 on: November 11, 2004, 10:08:47 AM »
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I can't believe this on her! She is a favorite of mine and I love her books. She wouldn't betray the family and she loved OTMA!

Didn't you read FOTR?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Angie_H »

Offline Angie_H

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Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #98 on: November 11, 2004, 10:11:04 AM »
Why was Dmitri never contacted regarding AA? He definately would have been able to identify her

Offline ISteinke

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Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #99 on: November 11, 2004, 11:07:17 AM »
Actually-
    Wow! I just hit on a stroke of genius!
    If it could ever be proved that Sophie Buxhoeveden betrayed the imperial family that would be absolute, irrefutable proof of AA's identity.
    What I mean is this. At the time that AA made her statements concerning Baroness Buxhoeveden and her alleged betrayal, noone else knew anything, ANYTHING about that possibility. If it turns out that this is true then at the very least it means that Anna Anderson had to have been physically present in Ekaterinburg when the IF dissapeared. There is no possible way that Franziska [that soon after the events] could have had knowledge of a betrayal in Ekaterinburg. AND, who else would have been there to know of these events besides Anastasia?
     If the betrayal could ever be proved.

Offline Annie

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Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #100 on: November 11, 2004, 11:18:30 AM »
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Actually-
     Wow! I just hit on a stroke of genius!
     If it could ever be proved that Sophie Buxhoeveden betrayed the imperial family that would be absolute, irrefutable proof of AA's identity.
     What I mean is this. At the time that AA made her statements concerning Baroness Buxhoeveden and her alleged betrayal, noone else knew anything, ANYTHING about that possibility. If it turns out that this is true then at the very least it means that Anna Anderson had to have been physically present in Ekaterinburg when the IF dissapeared. There is no possible way that Franziska [that soon after the events] could have had knowledge of a betrayal in Ekaterinburg. AND, who else would have been there to know of these events besides Anastasia?
      If the betrayal could ever be proved.


No, because AA never said that, it's recent research that has only come out lately that suggests that happened, AA never said anything about it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline ISteinke

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Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #101 on: November 11, 2004, 12:30:39 PM »
Actually, Annie, yes she did. I will have to go back and find the incident again [in the book I read on the subject], but it is true that when AA was asked if she wanted to see Sophie she had nothing but nasty things to say about her, and even referred to her as a traitor.

Offline Olga

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Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #102 on: November 12, 2004, 12:54:29 AM »
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Princess Irene.her aunt met her as early as 1922 outside Berlin.


Do you mean Irina Alexandrovna?

Offline Lanie

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Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #103 on: November 12, 2004, 01:24:41 AM »
Nope - Princess Irene of Prussia, Alix's older sister.

Also - like Olga Aleksandrovna said, why on earth if AA was in Romania did she not go see Maria of Romania?  "Missy would not be shocked by anything," she said...or something like that...and it seems true from her personality!

Everything about AA is fishy to me, from her appearance to her story and the DNA clinches it for me.

Offline Vive_HIH_Aleksey

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Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #104 on: April 11, 2005, 12:03:39 AM »
Did Rachmaninov have any sort of relationship or meeting with Anna Anderson? I know he was her benefactor with helping her get to the US. Sorry if it's a stupid question, I have great interest in Rach, and find this an interesting tidbit.
Hatred – this is a disgusting feeling. Yes, there is sport gambling, there is a striving to win. But to hate someone – this is awful! I think, that first of all you have to learn to respect your rival. -- Evgeni Plushenko