Author Topic: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson  (Read 138016 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline hg123

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #120 on: April 12, 2006, 11:52:30 AM »
It's just that it doesn't make much sense, IMO. If AA didn't want to speak with Felix for whatever reason, than she probably wouldn't have. But she did, just only in one language. Therefore I can't see any personal grudge behind this decision.

For example: As far as I know she outright refused to see Baroness Buxhoeveden. And therefore Buxhoeveden never got to met her when she wanted. That's obviously a big difference to AA's behaviour towards Felix, whom she did not refuse to meet.

Anyway, as long as Anastasia wasn't a much bigger fan of Rasputin than I expect her to be, I don't really see any reason why she should not speak to Felix. Much less a woman, who was definitely not Anastasia.

Offline ordino

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 76
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #121 on: April 13, 2006, 07:26:43 AM »
All NAOTMA were friends of Rasputin and Felix Y. was for then guilty of his dead. AA didn´t want to see Baroness Buxhoeveden because, like we know now for Greg King and others, the behaviour of the Baroness was not good at all when the family was in captivity. ( Problems with money, she was the only one to be alive.... ), maybe AA had no specially love of Baroness. Maybe AA did not want to see Baroness because of her behaviour, her bad behaviour in the past. Maybe AA did not think at all that if she refused to see her the people said that we are saying now: " Oh! look at this, she refused to see Baroness B. because the Baroness can say, no she is not AN). Really, AA was a very stubborn woman, in many ways and this was no good for her cause. Thanks. Ordino :)

Offline Annie

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4756
    • View Profile
    • Anna Anderson Exposed!
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #122 on: April 13, 2006, 08:19:07 AM »
Quote
Thankyou for making that clear Annie.

Did Felix know the Grand Duchesses very well? I know that Irina would of, growing up with them and frequently playing with the older girls, but I would of thought that Felix would of been too old to of been particuarlly close to Maria or Anastasia.

Rachael

He probably wasn't close to them, being so much older, but this is what I say about Cecile, who claimed her, who was Felix's age. She was never close to her growing up, then got married and moved to Germany when AN was only 4. If she ever did make it back to Russia, it is unlikely she saw AN since you had to be 17 to attend adult gatherings and AN was too young. Even if she got a glimpse of her here and there she would hardly be an expert. Then after the war broke out in 1914 she couldn't come. So she couldn't possibly have seen AN after she was 12.

Felix probably did have much more access to the family's inner circle, even before he married Irina, because the Yussoupovs had a house at Tsarskoe Selo they spent much of the winter in. They were close to the IF until Alexandra disowned Zenaida for telling her to get rid of Rasputin.

Offline Annie

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4756
    • View Profile
    • Anna Anderson Exposed!
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #123 on: April 13, 2006, 08:22:03 AM »
Quote
All NAOTMA were friends of Rasputin and Felix Y. was for then guilty of his dead. AA didn´t want to see Baroness Buxhoeveden because, like we know now for Greg King and others, the behaviour of the Baroness was not good at all when the family was in captivity. ( Problems with money,

This depends on whether you believe the speculation or not. She was the one who was there. Gilliard was also there, and he never mentioned any bad behavior in his books. Even the Botkin children, who later became huge AA supporters, were there and never once mentioned bad behavior by her. It's terrible how this woman has been so villianized years after her death for storyline purposes.

Offline Annie

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4756
    • View Profile
    • Anna Anderson Exposed!
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #124 on: April 13, 2006, 08:27:47 AM »
Quote
Maybe AA did not want to talk at all with Felix Y. Sometimes the best disregard is have not regard, example:
AA hated Felix Y., (because Rasputin and so on.......),

Here is a contradiction among AA supporters. Here you say she didn't like him because he killed Rasputin, whom she loved. Other supporters claim she didn't want to involve Anna Vyrobova in her case because she was a 'disciple of Rasputin'. The real reason they didn't want AV is because she was closer to the family than anyone left alive, and would have known for sure AA was a fraud. The real AN wouldn't have minded her, she loved her, and Rasputin would not have been an issue since AN liked him and wore his icon around her neck.

So which one is it?

Quote
he went to see her, so she spoken with him but, in german, her mother birth´s language

While Alexandra spoke German perfectly, English was her first language and the one she used most. Her mother was English, she had an English nanny, and after her mother died when she was 6 she spent much of her growing up years in England with her Grandmother Queen Victoria. She wrote her diaries and letters in English, and spoke it  every day, yes, even to her children. So the real AN would have known English much better than German.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline ordino

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 76
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #125 on: April 16, 2006, 02:31:31 PM »
Yes Annie there are a lot of contradiction among AA supporters, but in this point again I agree with AA about Felix Y. Why she spoke in German?, who knows what happen in the head of this poor woman, but again why Irina did not go to see her and Felix Y. did? bad behaviour of Irina, but well done for aunt Olga A., she was herself.
And, really I don´t know why AV never did go to see AA. I will go to another issue of this forum to know.
And Annie thank you very much for your idea, the supporters of AA must be agree in our points of view.
Thanks. Ordino
Ps: Here in Spain is Easter´s vacances, so, happy Easter to everybody

Offline Valerian

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Mind over matter
    • View Profile
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #126 on: June 20, 2006, 03:36:27 PM »
As a footnote to the intriguing topic of Anna Anderson and the possibility Anastasia survived, I once asked Princess Ileana of Romania about this question.  This was long before DNA had resolved the matter.  The princess became quite agitated. Normally she was calm and dignified.  "No, no," she exclaimed.  "She was an imposter."  This from someone who actually had known Anastasia and who herself was also the great granddaughter of Alexander II made it clear to me that Anna Anderson was a hoax.  I don't think the princess ever met Anna Anderson, but she undoubedly had talked to those who had.  And I don't think she had any axe to grind.  She wasn't in line for any of the Tsar's money, if such even existed.  She probably would have welcomed Anna Anderson if she had any proof that she was indeed her cousin Anastasia.

Offline Annie

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4756
    • View Profile
    • Anna Anderson Exposed!
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #127 on: June 22, 2006, 11:13:00 AM »
I know this has been discussed in many threads, but I have searched in vain for the quotes I'm looking for. Does anyone have the direct quote of when Olga told how she realized AA was not her niece when she saw her, and that the bond was not there? I think this may be in her autobiography? Any such quotes on AA and Olga would be welcome, along with any discussion on this topic. Thank you.

Offline Belochka

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4447
  • City of Peter stand in all your splendor - Pushkin
    • View Profile
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #128 on: June 22, 2006, 08:54:25 PM »
Quote
I know this has been discussed in many threads, but I have searched in vain for the quotes I'm looking for. Does anyone have the direct quote of when Olga told how she realized AA was not her niece when she saw her, and that the bond was not there? I think this may be in her autobiography? Any such quotes on AA and Olga would be welcome, along with any discussion on this topic. Thank you.

With pleasure Annie!

"The Last Grand Duchess" @ p 176:

"As soon as I had sat down by the bed in the Mommsen Nursing Home I knew I was looking at a stranger. The spiritual bond between my dear Anastasia and myself was so strong that neither time nor any ghastly experience could have interfered with it. I don't really know what name to give to that feeling - but I do know it was wholly absent. I had left Denmark with something of a hope in my heart. I left Berlin with all hope extinguished."



Faces of Russia is now on Facebook!


http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/

Offline Belochka

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4447
  • City of Peter stand in all your splendor - Pushkin
    • View Profile
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #129 on: June 22, 2006, 09:21:09 PM »
@ p 174:

"I heard that when she was rescued from that canal in 1920, she spoke nothing but German ... My nieces knew no German at all."

"Mrs Anderson didd not seem to understand a word of  Russian or English."

and a few more quotes @ p 176:

"I had a feeling that she was briefed."

"The mistakes she made could not be attributed to lapses in memory. "

"Then again I heard that a party in Berlin, when she was offered some vodka, Mrs Anderson said: "How nice! It does remind me of the days at Tsarskoe Selo!" Vodka certainly would not have brought any such reminder to my niece." .... My nieces never touched either wine or spirits - how could they at that age?""

On day 3 @ p 177:

"I had the impression that she was getting tired of playing a part someone had assigned to her."

"She did in fact admit that a scar, allegedly resulting from the blows on her head at Ekaterinburg, had been caused by her tubercular condition."

"My refusal to recognize my niece in Mrs Anderson was attributted to a telegram I was supposed to have received from my niece Xenia in England instructing me not to acknowledge the relationship on any account. I never received any such telegram."

"It's a complete fabrication," insisted the Grand Duchess."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Belochka »


Faces of Russia is now on Facebook!


http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/

ChatNoir

  • Guest
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #130 on: June 22, 2006, 09:23:25 PM »
Quote
I know this has been discussed in many threads, but I have searched in vain for the quotes I'm looking for. Does anyone have the direct quote of when Olga told how she realized AA was not her niece when she saw her, and that the bond was not there? I think this may be in her autobiography? Any such quotes on AA and Olga would be welcome, along with any discussion on this topic. Thank you.

From a letter Olga wrote to Princess Irene of Prussia dated 22nd December,1926 (presumably in error for 1925):

"I was more moved than I can say by your kind letter, which was completely unexpected to me. I have often thought of you since I had to go to Berlin last autumn to see the poor girl said to be our dear little niece. Well, there is no resemblance at all, and it is obviously not Anastasia. I know that you also visited her, I was told of your visit by Grünberg, the old police inspector.
It has been claimed that she recognised me, but I will tell you how it all went. She had been prepared for my visit. She herself confessed to me that she was told: "On Tuesday you will have a great treat. Somebody is coming from Denmark." After that she could guess at once and expect her "aunt." She was unable to give an answer to a single one of the small intimate questions I asked her.
It was pitiful to watch this poor creature trying to prove she was Anastasia. She showed her feet, a finger with a scar and other marks which she said were bound to be recognised at once. But it was Maria who had a crushed finger, and someone who believed it was Anastasia must have told her this.
For four years this poor creature's head was stuffed with alle these stories, she was shown a mass of photos, etc., and then one fine day she hoped to spring her memories on the world.
Monsieur Gilliard and his wife, my husband, and also old Volkov (who used to be Alix's groom-of-the-chamber), have all seen her and talked to her, and none of them believes she is our Anastasia. It has been claimed, however, that we all recognised her and were then given intsructions by Mama to deny that she was Anastasia. That is a complete lie. I believe this whole story is an attempt at blackmail, but I am also convinced that a lot of people really believe in it - only they are the people who never knew Anastasia."

Upon meeting AA in Berlin, Olga reportedly said to Mrs. Rathlef: "Our little one and Shura seem very happy to have found one another again. If I had any money, I would do everything for the little one, but I haven't any and must earn my own pocket money by painting."
To Herluf Zahle: "My reason cannot grasp it, but my heart tells me that the little one is Anastasia. And because I have been raised in a faith which teaches me to follow my heart before my reason, I must believe that she is."

From a letter written by Olga to Herluf Zahle, October 31, 1925:

"I have had very long conversations with my mother and U[ncle] Waldemar all about our poor little friend. I can't tell you how fond I got of her - whoever she is. My feeling is that she is not the one she believes - but one can't say she is not as a fact - as there are still many strange and inexplicable facts not cleared up."

From cards to AA from Olga:

(undated)
"Don't be afraid. You are not alone now and we shall not abandon you."

October 31, 1925
"My thoughts are with you - I am remembering the times we were together, when you stuffed me full of chocolates, tea and cocoa."

November 4, 1925
"Thinking of you all the time."

December 25, 1925
"Am longing to see you."

Along with the cards came presents consisting of Olga's personal belongings, a shawl, a sweater and a photo album.

From a letter to Grand Duke Andrew:

"You think I may be wrong. Such mistakes can of course happen. One way or the other it is ghastly."

When Gleb Botkin was trying to arrange for AA to stay with Xenia Leeds at her estate at Oyster Bay, she asked if she could first consult Prince Christopher of Greece (her maternal uncle and the Dowager Empress' nephew).
Botkin met the Prince at a meal in the Leed's house, and was astonished to learn that he had not the slightest doubt as to AA's genuineness; when asked about the Grand Duchess Olga's present attitude, the Prince answered quite casually: "Of course Olga knows better than anyone that she is Anastasia."

Before Volkov's death in 1929 Professor Serge Ostrogorsky, one of nearly forty physicians who had served at the Russian court, asked Volkov to tell him the truth. "On the one hand he denied her identity," Ostrogorsky reported; "on the other he told me that his interview with the invalid had moved him deeply, tat he had been crying and had kissed her hand, which certainly he would never have done if someone other then the Grand Duchess had been standing before him." Pressed to account for this contradiction, Volkov started crying again and told Ostrogorsky, "It is true, I believe that she is the Grand Duchess, but how can the Grand Duchess speak no Russian?"

Kind regards
ChatNoir
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by ChatNoir »

ChatNoir

  • Guest
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #131 on: June 22, 2006, 11:34:05 PM »
Quote
["I heard that when she was rescued from that canal in 1920, she spoke nothing but German ... My nieces knew no German at all."

And we know that they all took German lessons all the way up to the travel to Ekaterinburg.

Kind regards
ChatNoir

ChatNoir

  • Guest
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #132 on: June 22, 2006, 11:39:47 PM »
Quote
 
  "As soon as I had sat down by the bed in the Mommsen Nursing Home I knew I was looking at a stranger. The spiritual bond between my dear Anastasia and myself was so strong that neither time nor any ghastly experience could have interfered with it. I don't really know what name to give to that feeling - but I do know it was wholly absent. I had left Denmark with something of a hope in my heart. I left Berlin with all hope extinguished."    


And to Herluf Zahle she writes: "I can't tell you how fond I got of her."

To her mother's secretary she writes: "Poor mamma, this will kill her."

Curious and curiouser.

Kind regards
ChatNoir



Offline Belochka

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4447
  • City of Peter stand in all your splendor - Pushkin
    • View Profile
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #133 on: June 23, 2006, 03:26:00 AM »
Quote
Quote
 
  "As soon as I had sat down by the bed in the Mommsen Nursing Home I knew I was looking at a stranger. The spiritual bond between my dear Anastasia and myself was so strong that neither time nor any ghastly experience could have interfered with it. I don't really know what name to give to that feeling - but I do know it was wholly absent. I had left Denmark with something of a hope in my heart. I left Berlin with all hope extinguished."    


And to Herluf Zahle she writes: "I can't tell you how fond I got of her."

To her mother's secretary she writes: "Poor mamma, this will kill her."

Curious and curiouser.

Kind regards
ChatNoir


Remember that it is very easy to take sentences out of their intended context.


Faces of Russia is now on Facebook!


http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/

Offline Annie

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4756
    • View Profile
    • Anna Anderson Exposed!
Re: People Who Knew the Imperial Family and Anna Anderson
« Reply #134 on: June 23, 2006, 09:14:28 AM »
Quote
Quote
Quote
 
  "As soon as I had sat down by the bed in the Mommsen Nursing Home I knew I was looking at a stranger. The spiritual bond between my dear Anastasia and myself was so strong that neither time nor any ghastly experience could have interfered with it. I don't really know what name to give to that feeling - but I do know it was wholly absent. I had left Denmark with something of a hope in my heart. I left Berlin with all hope extinguished."    


And to Herluf Zahle she writes: "I can't tell you how fond I got of her."

To her mother's secretary she writes: "Poor mamma, this will kill her."

Curious and curiouser.

Kind regards
ChatNoir


Remember that it is very easy to take sentences out of their intended context.

Indeed. I take the 'poor mama' comment to mean that it would  hurt her to learn that someone was pretending to be her dead granddaughter. How on earth could ANYONE think that if the real AN were alive MF and OA would reject her? This is beyond insulting to them.

Thank you Belochka for the quotes!

Chatnoir, most of what you posted appears to be unreliable. Where were these cards and notes, is there any proof they ever existed, did anyone else see them, and were they really from OA? I am skeptical. And all your 'she reportedly said...'  comments look like a bunch of he said she said third hand unvalididated hearsay.