Author Topic: the 'mundane' idea - a paradox and a problem  (Read 83910 times)

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Offline Vera_Figner

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Re: the 'mundane' idea - a paradox and a problem
« Reply #480 on: April 26, 2005, 07:17:53 PM »
Quote

How do you respond to this, except for, get over yourself, the rest of us already have.  Conceited, egotistical woman, we all have something valuable to add to this thread, and this discussion not just you.

You may be impressed with what you consider your academic prowress, however it doesn't impress me one iota,  but when you use it to brow beat others with your opinion than that is tyranny, and should not be done and for one will not stand for it being done to me or the others here.

You want to battle, then do it by PM, otherwise take the personal degrading remarks about others out of your comments.



You didn't read a word I wrote, did you? You owe it to yourself, seriously, do go back and pay close attention to my last post, Michael.

What about YOUR personal degrading remarks, hmmm? Those are EASY to locate and more than plentiful. And WHY is it you don't take those to PM, yet you demand others do?
Get used to disappointment, because if you continue to degrate ME publicly, I will continue to retaliate relentlessly in the same manner.

So, I am assuming you will take your own advice and I will see you on PM?

Offline Vera_Figner

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Re: the 'mundane' idea - a paradox and a problem
« Reply #481 on: April 26, 2005, 07:29:15 PM »
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Sorry, Vera, but I don't buy it.  I was the only person to raise the issue of chimera, and so I must have been the "former" that you referred to.  You backpedal now lest you have gone too far.  My conviction in this is borne out by your last sentence referring to "writers"  -- who else here is a writer (though actually I am an author)?  You must again be slamming me, because I am a "writer" and because I am the one who thinks you meant bald-faced insult rather than word-play.

I don't understand the continual hostility, Vera, but please, in future, don't mistake vulgarity for wit.


It is immaterial to me whether or not you "buy" anything, Penny. Now pay attention, carefully, I do not care.

As to writers, I suspect there are a number who post on this board.
You are also not the only author here.
But...you knew that, didn't you?

As to your last comment, something about continual hostility, vulgarity vs. wit: this is ENTIRELY your misinterpretation.

I deny, vehemently deny, that I was hostile.

Yuck, I can't believe I've allowed this sort of waste of time.

Off to things that actually matter!



Offline Alice

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Re: the 'mundane' idea - a paradox and a problem
« Reply #482 on: April 26, 2005, 07:30:57 PM »
Sigh . . . OK, another attempt to steer folks back to the subject . . .

Now, everyone knows my position on the AA issue. I do NOT believe that AA was AN, and I DO believe that AA was FS.

However, for the sake of the discussion:

IF AA was a "Chimera", that would mean that she would have to be a twin. (Please, correct me if I'm wrong).

So if AA was FS's twin (and we have said that FS could've had an identical twin, jokingly!), this could explain why AA had many scars, etc that FS didn't have. I think it's far-fetched, but it's a thought.

That's where we hit a dead end, because there's no proof whatsoever that FS had a twin sister.


Offline Penny_Wilson

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Re: the 'mundane' idea - a paradox and a problem
« Reply #483 on: April 26, 2005, 07:41:04 PM »
Quote
Sigh . . . OK, another attempt to steer folks back to the subject . . .

Now, everyone knows my position on the AA issue. I do NOT believe that AA was AN, and I DO believe that AA was FS.

However, for the sake of the discussion:

IF AA was a "Chimera", that would mean that she would have to be a twin. (Please, correct me if I'm wrong).

So if AA was FS's twin (and we have said that FS could've had an identical twin, jokingly!), this could explain why AA had many scars, etc that FS didn't have. I think it's far-fetched, but it's a thought.

That's where we hit a dead end, because there's no proof whatsoever that FS had a twin sister.



Identical twins have identical DNA -- so if AA was a multiple birth, her situation would have to have been fraternal.  BUT -- from what I understand, the pregnancy starts out with fraternal twins -- two fertilized eggs with different DNA -- and in the course of gestation, one egg is absorbed by the other, leaving one gestating entity with two sets of DNA.  So only one child is born, though the pregnancy started out with two fertilized eggs.

This afternoon, I read the account of a set of fraternal twins, one of whom is chimeric -- the conclusion was that there must have been a fraternal triplet who was absorbed into one of the two siblings who were eventually born.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Franziska Schanzkowska was a multiple birth -- though obviously, what happened in the womb, I can't possibly comment on.

Anastasia Manahan has -- for me -- an unestablished "real" identity.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Penny_Wilson »
"Don't do anything by half. If you love someone, love them with all your soul. When you go to work, work your ass off. When you hate someone, hate them until it hurts."  -- A Piece of Good Advice

Sometimes the truth hurts. And sometimes it feels real good. -- Henry Rollins

rskkiya

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Re: the 'mundane' idea - a paradox and a problem
« Reply #484 on: April 26, 2005, 07:43:32 PM »
Vera F  -a rapier wit vcan be blunted by the wrong kind of use ...You are being wasted here!

Micheael
Please don't send me pms full of fulsome explanations for your behaviour, if you then constantly refuse to pm the people you so disagree with rather than voice your comment here!

Penny a career in sf/ historical fiction is waiting for you...seriously! It's a possibility!

The chimera theory is the weakest yet proposed.

Offline Penny_Wilson

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Re: the 'mundane' idea - a paradox and a problem
« Reply #485 on: April 26, 2005, 07:53:36 PM »
Quote

Penny a career in sf/ historical fiction is waiting for you...seriously! It's a possibility!


Keep your impertinent remarks to yourself, please.  I didn't ask you to come in here like the "board police" and dispense your opinions about what I ought to do.

Quote
The chimera theory is the weakest yet proposed.


Of course you think so.  What else could you think, having taken your lead from your favored posters?

When will you be proposing a theory? Or are you limiting your time here to demanding apologies and ordering people around?

I've told you before, rsskiya -- do not run your act on me.
"Don't do anything by half. If you love someone, love them with all your soul. When you go to work, work your ass off. When you hate someone, hate them until it hurts."  -- A Piece of Good Advice

Sometimes the truth hurts. And sometimes it feels real good. -- Henry Rollins

rskkiya

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Re: the 'mundane' idea - a paradox and a problem
« Reply #486 on: April 26, 2005, 08:01:25 PM »
PENNY
       Please this is not an attack or an insult! I do think that historical fiction would be a good opportunity for you... what does "run my act" mean?
      WHY must you take everything as an attack?
      So far I happen to agree with Helen A 's take on this. Should any evidence change this I will tell you.


The WHOLE WORLD is NOT out to get you Penny REALLY!

rskkiya
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by rskkiya »

Offline Penny_Wilson

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Re: the 'mundane' idea - a paradox and a problem
« Reply #487 on: April 26, 2005, 08:05:59 PM »
Quote
PENNY
        Please this is not an attack or an insult! I do think that historical fiction would be a good oportunity for you...
        WHY must you take everything as an attack?
       So far I happen to agree with Helen A 's take on this. Should any evidence change this I will tell you.


The WHOLE WORLD is NOT out to get you Penny REALLY!

rskkiya


Not the "whole world," rsskiya -- just a handful of women on this forum.

And how could you possibly, realistically think that suggesting to an author of historical biography that she should switch to fiction would be ANYTHING other than insulting?  You are too, too disingenuous...
"Don't do anything by half. If you love someone, love them with all your soul. When you go to work, work your ass off. When you hate someone, hate them until it hurts."  -- A Piece of Good Advice

Sometimes the truth hurts. And sometimes it feels real good. -- Henry Rollins

Offline Vera_Figner

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Re: the 'mundane' idea - a paradox and a problem
« Reply #488 on: April 26, 2005, 08:43:08 PM »
Quote

Not the "whole world," rsskiya -- just a handful of women on this forum.

And how could you possibly, realistically think that suggesting to an author of historical biography that she should switch to fiction would be ANYTHING other than insulting?  You are too, too disingenuous...


Please, please do not flatter yourself in this way, Penny. And remember, when you express your views on whatever subject, some are going to disagree, and that does not -- PLEASE pay attention -- that does NOT mean anyone is remotely out to get you, I mean, come on, do you really think you're so special and tempting a target that those who MERELY disagree with you would take time from our lives to "go after you"??  And, how do you precisely define "going after" someone? Do you mean disagreeing? Do you flatter yourself to the extent that it means something sinister?? As if anyone would invest that sort of time in you?
If this is the case, you are really a sad case. Maybe counseling would help?

Offline Denise

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Re: the 'mundane' idea - a paradox and a problem
« Reply #489 on: April 26, 2005, 08:54:10 PM »
I am not being the board police here.  I am asking nicly that we talk about ANYTHING related to the mystery of Anastasia Manahan, even how often she washed her hair, rather than this constant bickering!!  

Ladies (and the occasional gent), I understand there seems to be animosity here, but I would like to be able to post and exchange ideas with like minded history buffs and scholars, not learn new ways to call names.  

Can we move the chimera topic to its own thread, at any rate, so I know which threads to avoid?

ON TOPIC:

Penny, did you ever find your notes from your discussion with Remy and Sandkuhler?  That sounded most interesting.  :)

Thanks!

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: the 'mundane' idea - a paradox and a problem
« Reply #490 on: April 26, 2005, 08:59:11 PM »
E N O U G H!
GENUGH!
NYET!

I honestly do not have to repeat myself again ad nauseum about this behavior from all quarters?

Ladies and Gentlemen to your respective corners. A five minute break and civility please.

You each and every one know better and are better than this.

FA

Mgmstl

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Re: the 'mundane' idea - a paradox and a problem
« Reply #491 on: April 26, 2005, 09:02:24 PM »
My apologies FA.. Sorry

Offline Penny_Wilson

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Re: the 'mundane' idea - a paradox and a problem
« Reply #492 on: April 26, 2005, 09:29:04 PM »
Quote

ON TOPIC:

Penny, did you ever find your notes from your discussion with Remy and Sandkuhler?  That sounded most interesting.  :)

Thanks!


Yes, I did -- but tell me, Denise, FA, anyone:  What's the point of posting any of it?  What is the point in me continuing to contribute to this board at all?  As soon as someone doesn't like or doesn't agree with something that I post, all hell will break loose again, names will be called, insults will be flung, and I will be left here again, feeling at fault for raising an issue for discussion.  I do not believe that my contribution is valued -- and I DO contribute from a slightly different vantage point then normal.

So let's just drop it all.  Let's let Helen Azar be Queen of the Science Castle, and let's all stroke Annie and tell her how wonderful she is, and let's let rsskiya tell us how we should be and who we should apologize to for what. And Vera Figner or Dashkova or whoever she is can steam-roller all over what's left --  because that seems to be the only thing that will keep these people happy.  And guess what, people?  That isn't history.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Penny_Wilson »
"Don't do anything by half. If you love someone, love them with all your soul. When you go to work, work your ass off. When you hate someone, hate them until it hurts."  -- A Piece of Good Advice

Sometimes the truth hurts. And sometimes it feels real good. -- Henry Rollins

Mgmstl

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Re: the 'mundane' idea - a paradox and a problem
« Reply #493 on: April 26, 2005, 09:54:31 PM »
Quote

Yes, I did -- but tell me, Denise, FA, anyone:  What's the point of posting any of it?  What is the point in me continuing to contribute to this board at all?  As soon as someone doesn't like or doesn't agree with something that I post, all hell will break loose again, names will be called, insults will be flung, and I will be left here again, feeling at fault for raising an issue for discussion.  I do not believe that my contribution is valued -- and I DO contribute from a slightly different vantage point then normal.

So let's just drop it all.  Let's let Helen Azar be Queen of the Science Castle, and let's all stroke Annie and tell her how wonderful she is, and let's let rsskiya tell us how we should be and who we should apologize to for what. And Vera Figner or Dashkova or whoever she is can steam-roller all over what's left --  because that seems to be the only thing that will keep these people happy.  And guess what, people?  That isn't history.


You are correct Penny, it's not history.  Penny let's not drop it all, there has to be a way for us to discuss this on this forum without being steam rolled or ridiculed.  

I am with Denise I would like to hear about the discussion with Remy & Sandkuhler.

Your postings are valuable and insightful to those of us that are interested in this. While you have every right to be frustrated as the rest of us do.


Offline Vera_Figner

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Re: the 'mundane' idea - a paradox and a problem
« Reply #494 on: April 26, 2005, 10:12:50 PM »
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Yes, I did -- but tell me, Denise, FA, anyone:  What's the point of posting any of it?  What is the point in me continuing to contribute to this board at all?  As soon as someone doesn't like or doesn't agree with something that I post, all hell will break loose again, names will be called, insults will be flung, and I will be left here again, feeling at fault for raising an issue for discussion.  I do not believe that my contribution is valued -- and I DO contribute from a slightly different vantage point then normal.

So let's just drop it all.  Let's let Helen Azar be Queen of the Science Castle, and let's all stroke Annie and tell her how wonderful she is, and let's let rsskiya tell us how we should be and who we should apologize to for what. And Vera Figner or Dashkova or whoever she is can steam-roller all over what's left --  because that seems to be the only thing that will keep these people happy.  And guess what, people?  That isn't history.


Hell breaks loose because you can never handle it when others disagree with you! Why can't you see that? If you are not constantly agreed with and coddled, trouble brews.  Please accept that some are going to vehemently disagree with you! It doesn't make you wrong, but you cannot possibly claim to be a historian and expect your views to go unquestioned! That is a major part of the profession, but you seem not to notice this, certainly not to accept it!

And this chimera theory is neither science (as applies to this case), and certainly it is not history.
It is myth! By every definition!

Vera, not Dashkova

(though we do share quite a few opinions, classrooms, sometimes desk space, and more than a few laughs at this website! She sends her best wishes for "getting over...whatever it is" and is so pleased you remembered her!)