Rasputin & Nicholas

[Lass]

Was it a case of Rasputin v. Nicholas? Surely he could not have liked the way Rasputin controlled his wife?

I remember reading in one book that the Tsar generally gave into Rasputin for his wife's sake, because she would turn hysterical otherwise.

[Grigorevna]

I have the impression that Nicholas at first enjoyed the company of Gregory Yefimovich, but that became more and more reluctant. Remember that, when G.E shared his opinion on the war in a telegram, he is said to have torn the telegram apart. (A statement that I find quite plausible. This is not a smearing rumor as so many other things about Nicholas.) And during 1916, when Nicholas was at the front all ministers were appointed, he wrote home:

9 september
"Our Friends ideas about men are sometimes queer, as you know - so one must be careful especially in nominations of high people. All these changes exhaust the head. I find they happen much too often. It is certainly not at all good for the interior of the country, because every new man brings changes also to the administration."

10 november:
"While these changes go on the Duma will be shut for 8 days (...) In any case Trepov will try and do his best. He comes back, on Sunday I think, with a list of names, which we have spoken about with Mm. and him. Only please don't mix in our Friend! It is I who carry the responsibility and I want to be free to chose accordigly."

Qoutes from "A lifelong passion - Nicholas and Alexandra - Their own story"  Diarys and letters from 1884 to 1918. Magnificent book.

//Grigorevna

[Laura Mabee]

Wonderful answer Grigorevna,
Thanks for the quotes.  

[Lass]

Yes, thank you.

[charley]

Has anyone thought of the possibility that the Tsar may have been involved in Rasputin's death? 

[Bob_the_builder]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!

That's just ludacris in my opinion. I mean, he exiled Prince Felix Yussoupov and Dimitri after he found out they were involved, and he wouldn't have wanted to cause that much stress on Alix in my opinion. He was after all the only hope Alexis had.

[Robert_Hall]

Plus he was not intelligent enough to do such a thing. Just not in his character at all

[charley]

I am thinking about human nature. 

Plus he was not intelligent enough to do such a thing. Just not in his character at all

Maybe someone can be brilliant enough to come across a certain way but in reality be very different. I think he was very capable of doing many things. He had to know how Rasputin was negatively effecting the monarchy.  Secondly, why would a man stand by while his wife went on and on about another man.  I don't care what he was, what he siad, or what he did, I do not think a man, especially in those days would just sit by and let things go on.  As for the idea that his wife would be upset if Rasputin was gone, I think his thought was, "She is always sick and falling apart anyway, so what is the difference."
   If we look at human nature and look at how people react to events in their lives and we see similarities, why can we not assume the the Tsar, being human, did not feel the same way.
   The question of Alexis. When was the last time Rasputin "healed" him.

[Forum Admin]

The Emperor was absolutely NOT involved in any way shape form or manner in R's death.  The first hand historical record evidence is compelling on this issue.

[charley]

The Emperor was absolutely NOT involved in any way shape form or manner in R's death.  The first hand historical record evidence is compelling on this issue.

Has anyone throughout history EVER taken the blame for someone else, to protect them because of loyalty. According to your statement, you sound as if you are saying it is not possible and has never occured. As for me, I like to look outside of the box. I think actual human nature is more compelling than something I read in a book. Do you believe every eyewitness account you have read? Before making a statement such as "absolutely not", why not just take a moment to think about this idea.  Yes, most everything discussed today is speculation, but what is wrong with that?  Nothing is really 100%. Why wouldn't the Tsar want him dead?  What is so beyond believe about that.  I think he thought about it, and if he did it, good for him. As for the first hand historical records, don't you think that if I was writing an account of someone I loved and was loyal too, I would not write anything to smear there names in anyway?  All the firsthand accounts about the Tsar and his family were written by those who were closes to them, therefore they were the ones who were loyal. I think that we may not have a true sense of who they were (i.e. all aspects of there personalities). And you have to know that if the Tsar was involved, he would never have broadcasted it. These people were not idiots, I am quite certain that they could come up with plans and secrets and ideas like we do today.  They were human, they had feelings and emotions and they most certainly reacted to them. Understand, I love this family as if they were my own, but I like to look at the family from the eyes of the 21st century. Human nature probably has not changed much since they were around. Could you at least agree on that point?

[Bob_the_builder]

I think if Nicholas wanted Rasputin gone, he would have sent him into exile. I also think he had no problem with the faith Alexandra put in Rasputin, it was a way for her to cope with her son's illness.

Most importantly above all, there is no evidence that Nicholas had anything to do with Rasputin's murder.

[Forum Admin]

You wrote: Yes, most everything discussed today is speculation, but what is wrong with that?   Nothing is "wrong" with that, but remember that all it will be IS speculation, not fact.  There is NO evidence to support your speculation beyond mere supposition.  Well, whenever faced with this question I respond thusly

"How do we know that a small fishing boat from Canada didn't pick up survivors of the Titanic, took them back to Newfoundland and their descendants live there today?"  Its certainly possible, but there is no evidence to support it...so whats the point? I will take the first hand accounts of Spiridovich, Lili Dehn, and all those who were THERE at the time, had no reason to prevaricate (like Felix or Dmitri would have) and wrote their honest accounts over speculation any day.

[charley]

I did not mean that I think the Tsar pulled the trigger or was present at the murder.  I do believe that Dmitri and Felix killed him, but I wonder if the Tsar did not mention the idea at some point. I really do not see it to be unbelievable.  I read Dmitri and Felix's accounts years ago, but I do not recall what they said.  Did they give a point when they decided to do it and why or how they came up with the idea?  If they made a big, huge statement saying that they acted alone, no one made them do it, and they acted completely alone that would make it sound as if they were trying to protect someone.

[Bob_the_builder]

But do you really think Nicholas would have sent them into exile if he was involved all along? I think not.

[vladm]

I think regardless of the Rasputin's attitude and behavior (if it was real at all), Nicholas would always guard his (Rasputin’s life). Until Alexy’s would produce heir to the throne.