Author Topic: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children  (Read 156089 times)

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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #75 on: August 17, 2005, 07:57:39 AM »
Her husband died in a Soviet prison camp either during or after the war I believe. I think she was left pretty destitute and with all those children.

Marrying in Coburg wasn't that odd. Since the Romanovs were in exile marrying in her mother's hometown would make sense. At least you would have some sense of family history.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by grandduchessella »
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #76 on: August 17, 2005, 09:02:27 AM »
I think that if there was still a Tsar of Russia at the time the marriage would've been considered unequal (ala Tatiana K's married to Prince Bagration) and Maria would've lost her rights. I don't know about all the wrangling nowadays.

Marlene would probably know more about this but I think there were rumors that the younger children may have been fathered by someone else.
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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #77 on: August 17, 2005, 10:19:44 AM »
Didn´t the youngest child die only aged some months?

Offline LenelorMiksi

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #78 on: August 17, 2005, 01:52:30 PM »
Thanks so much for the info! ;D
I ADORE this Discussion Board.
I was wondering why Leiningin was considered beneath her.  I read on another thread on the succession that it was a mediatized house, but I have no clue as to what that means.  
Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse:  "Each year brings us nearer to the Wiedersehen [reunion with the dead], though it is sad to think how one's glass is running out, & how little good goes with it, compared to the numberless blessings we receive.  Time goes incredibly fast."

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #79 on: August 17, 2005, 02:02:28 PM »
From the online gotha:

"Traditionally, the term "Mediatized" has been defined as describing those Houses of the former Holy Roman Empire which lost their sovereignty during the Napoleonic era. The most important thing which traditionally distinguished the "Mediatized" houses from other non-sovereign houses is that they have traditionally been considered to have been granted by the Congress of Vienna the status of equal birth with the sovereign houses. Not all houses usually designated as "mediatized" were actually sovereign at the beginning of the Napoleonic era or, for that matter, at any time. Some seem to have fallen into this category by accident or misunderstanding by scholars and historians. Other houses, which have as good historical claims to be considered mediatized as some who are traditionally included, have not even been listed in the Almanach de Gotha or among the Fürstliche Häuser of Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels. "


« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 04:51:00 AM by Svetabel »
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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #80 on: August 17, 2005, 02:31:36 PM »
Arturo, im my opinion is the expert on the mediatized houses but the Leinengen is indeed equal to any other "royal" family, at least according to a handy Burke's RF of the World reference !
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Offline LenelorMiksi

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #81 on: August 17, 2005, 03:10:42 PM »
Okay, now I have dates and names for MK's kids.  I almost freaked out when the surnames page on worldroots refused to come up, but then I remembered that there are other sources.  Here goes:
1. Pc Emich 1926* who married Eilika of Oldenburg
2. Pc Karl 1928*
3. Pcss Kira Melita 1930*, married Andrej of Yugoslavia
4. Pcss Margarita 1932*
5. Pcss Mechtilde 1936* married Karl Bauscher
6. Pc. Friedrich 1938*
7. Peter Victor (1942-1943)

I like that combination- Kira Melita.
Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse:  "Each year brings us nearer to the Wiedersehen [reunion with the dead], though it is sad to think how one's glass is running out, & how little good goes with it, compared to the numberless blessings we receive.  Time goes incredibly fast."

Offline LenelorMiksi

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #82 on: August 17, 2005, 03:56:32 PM »
Okay, I'm going to attempt to post a picture of Mariya and Karl in their wedding clothes...
Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse:  "Each year brings us nearer to the Wiedersehen [reunion with the dead], though it is sad to think how one's glass is running out, & how little good goes with it, compared to the numberless blessings we receive.  Time goes incredibly fast."

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #83 on: August 17, 2005, 06:37:28 PM »
Quote
Arturo, im my opinion is the expert on the mediatized houses but the Leinengen is indeed equal to any other "royal" family, at least according to a handy Burke's RF of the World reference !


OK--I had done a search in the archives of ATR and there seemed to be a consensus that it wasn't an equal marriage but this really isn't my field at all.
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #84 on: August 17, 2005, 06:51:12 PM »
Neither is it mine, GDElla, the whole "mediatized" business is a minefield. I generally use Burke's Royal Families, sadly a bit out-of-date but generally "last word" on this sort of thing [at least in English]. Considering that the Leinengen family dates back to the 11th century and were "Princes of the Empire" I would say that makes them "royal" enough. Again, Art is the expert on the German families. Both front and back of the book.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

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Offline LenelorMiksi

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #85 on: August 17, 2005, 08:39:44 PM »
No, the two posted are the only pictures of MK as an adult that I've seen.  The one above is from Charlotte Zeepvat's "The Camera and the Tsars" p.219.  It seems like once someone marries into the house of Leiningen they disappear from photography.
Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse:  "Each year brings us nearer to the Wiedersehen [reunion with the dead], though it is sad to think how one's glass is running out, & how little good goes with it, compared to the numberless blessings we receive.  Time goes incredibly fast."

Offline LenelorMiksi

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #86 on: August 17, 2005, 09:21:16 PM »
Even if adultery was the norm at the time (just for men of course) that doesn't mean the act doesn't hurt.  Adultery is an ENORMOUS betrayal.  I think of it like this: just because everyone else on the block is a widow, that doesn't mean the next wife to lose a husband won't grieve.
Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse:  "Each year brings us nearer to the Wiedersehen [reunion with the dead], though it is sad to think how one's glass is running out, & how little good goes with it, compared to the numberless blessings we receive.  Time goes incredibly fast."

Offline bookworm857158367

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #87 on: August 18, 2005, 09:16:20 PM »
One of the biographies I read of her mother, either literary or on-line, said that Marie visited her cousin in Romania and made herself unwelcome because of the way she acted with the men there. Kyra handled herself better and got along better with Princess Ileana.

Apparently Ducky decided it was best to marry her daughter off young, at age 18. Mashka (her nickname) was also described as inheriting her maternal grandmother's rather dumpy figure and plain looks. In the first photo of her, she looks more drawn and worn out than dumpy. I think she lived quite a hard life and was relatively poor. World War II also destroyed her. She had a heart attack and died at a young age.

Ducky died not long after she visited Marie and helped her deliver her third or fourth child.

I've never seen photos of her as an adult either.

Offline LenelorMiksi

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #88 on: August 22, 2005, 11:18:33 AM »
Thanks bookworm for the info, that's funny how Mashka "acted up" with the men!
Thanks Tatia those pics are wonderful! :D
THis one I dug up from the Hulton archives.  It shows Kirill, Ducky, Mariya, and Kira all older.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/LenelorMiksi/Kirillovnasducky.jpg
Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse:  "Each year brings us nearer to the Wiedersehen [reunion with the dead], though it is sad to think how one's glass is running out, & how little good goes with it, compared to the numberless blessings we receive.  Time goes incredibly fast."

David_Pritchard

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children
« Reply #89 on: September 07, 2005, 02:52:53 PM »
It should be remembered that the Russian Empire was  a major force in workings of the Congress of Vienna and that Emperor Alexander I was an actual participant. If the Russian Emperor had recognised the Princely House of Leiningen as retaining its sovereign status in 1815 then I cannot imagine that a later Emperor would reverse this descision.

Queen Victoria's own mother, Victoria Mary Louisa, was the widow of the Second Prince of Leiningen when she married HRH Edward, Duke of Kent in 1818. Obviously her late marriage to a Prince of Leiningen was not viewed in a negative way by the British Royal Family.

David