Author Topic: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family  (Read 170075 times)

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Offline thijs

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2006, 11:15:24 AM »
The book is named "Die Habsburger und das Ubersinnliche"by Gabriele Praschl-Bichler ISBN 3-85002-507-1. The story of Wilhelmine Auersperg is tol in chapter 13 Maria-Theresianische Erscheinungen in Schloss Schonbrunn zur Zeit des Ersten Weltkriegs.

Crownprincess Zita was ordered by Kaiser Frans Joseph to move from Schloss Hetzendorf to Schonbrunn n order to guarantee her safety as Schloss Hetzendorf and the parc surrounding was easily to enter for strangers. In schloss Htzendorf Zita and some of her familymemebers already had a supernatural (unpleasant) experience which is also written down in this book.

Grafin Nora Nostitz, lady in waiting for Zita, the empress to be, moved together with Zita and her children to Schonbrunn. The grafin became rooms on the second floor of the schloss in the so called "Braunschweiger appartement'. These were the former appartments of the mother of Maria Theresia, Elisabeth Christine of Braunschweig Wolffenbuttel.Her rooms looked over the garden of Schonbrunn up to the Gloriette. The grafin slept several nights in these new rooms and had every night the same dream about a woman, clothed in style of the Maria Theresia era, with very fine hands. She dreamed every night that this woman stood in her room and walked through the appartment. and even into the corridors. After a week the empress became concerned and used the upcoming cold of the autumn to move the countess to other appartments (in the Braunschweiger appartments it was forbidden to heaten because of fire danger).

The guards in the corridor said tothe countess when she left the appartment that she was a courageous woman because it had never occured that someone slept for more than 2 nights in these appartments as it was haunted by this very same lady.

After a while, spring next year, Zita and the grafin visited count and countess Harrach in Bruck an der Leitha (Lower Austria). They got a guided tour by the count and countess through the castle. Suddenly they were in a room with paintings of ladies in waiting of Maria Theresia. Countes Nora Nostitz almost screamed when she saw the painting of furstin Auersperg, who she immediately identified as the lady she was haunted by in her sleep.

Wilhelmina Auersperg was born in 1738 as daughter of count Reinhard Khevenhullers. When Maria Theresia noticed that her husband had a certain interest in Wilhelmina Kevenhullers, she try to get rid of the lady and married her off to furst Johan Adam Auersperg, 17 years older than her. The furst lived far away from Vienna. Franz Stephan, the husband of Maria Theresia, in his turn however ordered the furst to the court (as a cover to become his love affair anyway wih Wilhelmina Auersperg). It appaered that the loved couple met in the garden near the Teahouse of the Schlossbrunner Garten (I believe this is near the Gloriette). It is not mentioned how she still had a career up to lady in waiting for the empress Maria Theresia.

The book says that the furstin (that is the haunting one)mostly came walking from the allees of the garden, up the grand staircase of Schonbrunn, into the Grand Galerie and by another staircase to the second floor.

The joy is short and the the shame long says this book and that is why she is paying for her love affair with Franz Stephan ever since (if this story is true I really wouldn`t want to know how Franz Stephan is haunting because I think he had his pants many times more under his knees than above!!!)

So anyway it makes me wonder too about how this lady Auersperg must have looked??
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by thijs »

Offline Marc

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2006, 11:18:09 AM »
I would like to know who else of the Imperial family ''saw'' her and when since her ghost apeared only before some tragedy!It could be interesting...and would also like to see her picture,but I doubt that anyone can find it!

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2006, 12:05:51 PM »
Quote
... and Christmas Eve (or boxing day?! ???- I'm not really good at 18th century Christmas rituals :-[ ) BY Archduchess Marie Christine herself



(from left: Ferdinand, Marie Christine, Marie Antoinette, Emmanuel Max, Maria Theresa, Franz Stefan I.)

The name of Maria Theresia's 16th child was MAXIMILIAN FRANZ (1756-1801).
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Offline mardam

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2006, 08:54:37 AM »

Maria Theresia 1717-1780 and her husband Franz Stephan 1708-1765



Maria Anna 1738-1789



Josef II 1741-1790

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2006, 04:18:25 AM »
My fabulous book Familienportraits der Habsburger ;) says that the portrait was painted by M. van Meytens in 1764/65.

For identifying reasons this means: In 1764/65 eleven children of Franz Stephan and Maria Theresia were still alive. Maria Elisabeth (1737-1740), Maria Karolina (1740-1741), Karl Joseph (1745-1761), Charlotte (1748) and Johanna (1750-1762) have already died.

I think the persons left to right are:
Fran Stephan, Maria Amalia, Maria Anna, Maria Josepha, Maria Antonia, Maria Karolina, Maria Elisabeth, Joseph II., Marie Christine, Ferdinand Karl, Maria Theresia, Maximilian Franz, Leopold

I'm not sure about the four elder girls, but I guess Marie Christine is standing next to her mother because she was her favourite one. On Joseph's left is maybe Maria Elisabeth, because she is the prettiest among the girls. She looks older than the girl (in the back) next to Franz Stephan I identified as Maria Amalia. But Elisabeth was older than Amalia ... :-? But I'm quite sure that the taller girl next to Franz Stephan is Maria Anna.

... and once again Maria Theresia is surrounded by her sons.  ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by MarieCharlotte »
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
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Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2006, 04:29:13 AM »
Did you recognize that Maria Theresia called all of her daughters "Maria" "Josepha" "Johanna" "Antonia" and all of her sons "Joseph" "Johann" "Anton"? What do you think is the reason for choosing this names?

Maria Elisabeth Amalia Antonia Josepha Gabriela Johanna Agatha
Maria Anna Josepha Antonia Johanna
Maria Karolina Ernestina Antonia Johanna Josepha
Maria Christina Josepha Johanna Antonia
Maria Elisabeth Josepha Johanna Antonia
Maria Amalia Josepha Johanna Antonia
Maria Karoline (Charlotta) - I don't know her other names ...
Maria Johanna Gabriele Josepha Antonia
Maria Josepha Gabriela Johanna Antonia Anna
Maria Karoline Ludovica Josepha Johanna Antonia
Maria Antonia Josepha Johanna

Joseph II Benedikt August Johann Anton Michael Adam
Karl Joseph Emanuel Anton Johann Nepomuk Prokop
Leopold II Peter Joseph Johann Anton Joachim Pius Gotthard
Ferdinand Carl Anton Joseph Johann Stanislaus
Maximilian Franz Xaver Joseph Johann Anton Wenzel
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline seriya

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2006, 10:42:59 PM »
I know the prefix of Maria had been established for All Archduchesses in the day empress Eleorona Magdalena(wife of Leopold I).
It was intended to signify the special veneration of Habsburg family for the Virgin Mary.
So all daughters(~Leopold II) had Maria. but Why Franz II-I's daughters?
His daughters.
from first wife
 1. Ludovika Elisabeth Franziska

from second wife
 1. Marie Louise Leopoldine Franziska Theresia Josepha Lucia
 2. Marie Caroline Leopoldine Franziska Theresia Josepha Medaros
 3. Caroline Ludovika Leopoldine
 4. Marie Leopoldine Josepha Caroline
 5. Marie Clementine Franziska Josepha
 6. Marie Caroline Ferdinande Theresia Josephine Demetria
 7. Maria Anna Franziska Theresia Josepha Medarde
 8. Amalia Theresia
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by seriya »
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Offline mardam

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2006, 08:09:22 AM »

Maria Christina 1742-1798


Marie Elisabeth 1743-1808


Karl Joseph 1745-1761

Offline mardam

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2006, 08:14:40 AM »

Leopold II 1747-1792 and spouse Marie Louise 1745-1792

Offline mardam

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2006, 10:51:48 AM »

Marie Amalia 1746-1804



Ferdinand 1754-1806

Offline mardam

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2006, 11:14:31 AM »

Maria Josefa 1751-1767


Maximilian 1756-1801

Offline seriya

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2006, 09:00:08 PM »
I'm reading a book of Maria Theresa. and it contains very interesting story.
<In 1756, she wrote for Countess Lerchenfeld, who at the time in charge of supervising Johanna & Josepha.

'I insist on their eating everything, with no fault-finding and no picking and choosing. Further, they must not be allowed to criticise their food. On Fridays, Saturdays, and all other fast-days they will eat fish.
Although Johanna in particular dislikes it, she must not be indulged. the sooner the habit is broken the better. All my children had the same aversion, and all had to overcome it......I don't like to see them eating much sugar, see that they have as little as possible.

The girls were not to be allowed to neglect their appearance. Cleanliness is to be observed most strictly. they must be properly washed and combed, every day without exception.

They must not be allowed to talk to door-keepers and stokers, or to give them orders; they are born to obey....I fear that Johanna is pig-headed, though she is clever enough in other ways. Josepha still seems to be a good child, but not so capable.
And never must they be allowed to be afraid, neither of thunder-stroms, fire, ghosts, witches, or any other nonsense. The servants must not talk about such thing or tell horror stries. Yor are not to let them be frightened of illness, so you will talk in a perfectly natural way about everything of this kind, even smallpox and death; it is all to the good to familiarise them with such thoughts in good time.
They must not be allowed to show aversion to anything, still less to anybody: no familiarity with the servants, politeness toward all, and particulary towards strangers.'

Her message to her children: even though you are surrounded by luxury and excess, you must not let your exalted status corrode your character. Royalty means responsibility, duty, unceasing and exhausting obligation; there is no room for laxity or weakness, or the self-indulgence of vice.>
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Offline Sissi

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2006, 07:21:55 AM »
Very interesting, they had a very frugal education, very simple, Josepha seemed indeed to be the prettiest of them all, too bad she died so young! It seeems also that none of the girls inherited their mother political intelligence, or maybe they were just not educated the way they should have been which is a shame. It is interesting to point out, that Marie Therese arranged the best mariages for her daughters and she expected them to serve the interest of the Austrian ruling house but never really provided them with a solid education. Young Antonia barely knwe how to write in german!! One of Marie Amelie daughter`s was named Maria Antonia do you know of Marie Antoinette was the Godmother!

  It must have been hard for Marie Anne and marie Elisabeth to remain spinster when her younger sister had great mariages!


  

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2006, 12:08:08 AM »
Yes I agree. MT herxeslf was a unigue situation beeing groomed as a ruler, but as she produced so many sons, she did not see the need for her own daughters to have a soild education as well. Instead they had a fun childhood, of whom all the girls looked back at those early years with affection.  I think Maria Karolina (Charlotte) and Maria Chistina ("Mimi") would have fared better with more education and training from their mother.  ;)

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2006, 04:46:44 AM »
Quote
Yes I agree. MT herxeslf was a unigue situation beeing groomed as a ruler, but as she produced so many sons, she did not see the need for her own daughters to have a soild education as well.

Well, Maria Theresia had 11 daughters and only 5 sons. She would have been very grateful if she had as much sons as daughters. Sons were of course much more important than daughters.  ;)
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth