Author Topic: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family  (Read 232404 times)

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Offline prinzheinelgirl

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #375 on: November 17, 2015, 04:08:48 AM »
Thank you very much, bravecoeur, for the content summary on the books related to Maria Elisabeth, and for this new publication which also features Maria Elisabeth.  Little by little information is being "unearthed" about her.

I'm unsure whether or not Maria Anna has her own biography while the only one I know of Maria Christina was written in the 19th century and in German. Someone reliable should do a book on each of the three sisters.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 04:20:12 AM by prinzheinelgirl »
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Offline Bravecoeur

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #376 on: November 17, 2015, 09:07:30 AM »
You're welcome.Unfortunately I have no overview on English Biographies of this kind, which I am sure exist too?
I'm unsure whether or not Maria Anna has her own biography while the only one I know of Maria Christina was written in the 19th century and in German.
Yes, there is one on Maria Anna from 1910, that was funnily not published in Klagenfurt but in Innsbruck:
Adolf  Innerkofler (ed),  Eine große Tochter Maria Theresias: Erzherzogin Marianna in ihrem Hauptmonument, dem Elisabethinen-Kloster zu Klagenfurt. Jubelgabe zur Feier des 200jährigen Bestehens vom Elisabethinen-Konvent, Innsbruck 1910. The German title can be translated as "A great daughter of Maria Theresia: Archduchess Marianna in her main monument, the Elizabethan convent of Klagenfurt. Jubelee present in celebration of the 200 year anniversary of the Elizabethan convent".

Furthermore not a book  but a contribution that is 110 pages long (!) so half a book ;) documents Maria Anna's 8 years in Klagenfurt: Othmar Rudan, Erzherzogin Maria Anna in Klagenfurt 1781 – 1789. In: Carinthia 1 170 (1980), 185–295.
Now compare this with how little has been written on Maria Elisabeth's 25 years in Innsbruck... I have read neither of these two works, this information is from another volume of the series I posted yesterday, not sure whether it has already been mentioned here. p. 60 https://winklerverlag.com/v1859x/v1859x_lep.htm

Quote from: prinzheinelgirl
Someone reliable should do a book on each of the three sisters.
Definitely a great idea! The problem is a bit, I think, that (court) biography is not such a "sexy" topic in academia, which leaves the area to other writers who mostly recycle existing material but don't look for new sources in the archives (exceptions are Renate Zedinger on Franz I Stephan, Derek Beales on Josef II and certainly a few more).
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 09:38:21 AM by Bravecoeur »

Offline prinzheinelgirl

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #377 on: November 20, 2015, 06:53:47 AM »
You're welcome.Unfortunately I have no overview on English Biographies of this kind, which I am sure exist too?

Can not recall any at this moment but my memory isn't perfect. Perhaps the others can help on this.

Yes, there is one on Maria Anna from 1910, that was funnily not published in Klagenfurt but in Innsbruck:
Adolf  Innerkofler (ed),  Eine große Tochter Maria Theresias: Erzherzogin Marianna in ihrem Hauptmonument, dem Elisabethinen-Kloster zu Klagenfurt. Jubelgabe zur Feier des 200jährigen Bestehens vom Elisabethinen-Konvent, Innsbruck 1910. The German title can be translated as "A great daughter of Maria Theresia: Archduchess Marianna in her main monument, the Elizabethan convent of Klagenfurt. Jubelee present in celebration of the 200 year anniversary of the Elizabethan convent".

Furthermore not a book  but a contribution that is 110 pages long (!) so half a book ;) documents Maria Anna's 8 years in Klagenfurt: Othmar Rudan, Erzherzogin Maria Anna in Klagenfurt 1781 – 1789. In: Carinthia 1 170 (1980), 185–295.
Now compare this with how little has been written on Maria Elisabeth's 25 years in Innsbruck... I have read neither of these two works, this information is from another volume of the series I posted yesterday, not sure whether it has already been mentioned here. p. 60 https://winklerverlag.com/v1859x/v1859x_lep.htm

Thanks for this. At least Maria Anna is not being totally ignored. I think she is most intelligent and talented overall among the siblings but is "underrated" due to Maria Christina's "prominence" as the favourite daughter of Maria Theresa as well as Maria Carolina being hailed as the daughter most like MT (did MT really state that?).

I think Maria Elisabeth is also categorized as not interesting enough like Maria Anna - 'princesses at convents' and there were plenty of those at that era.  But they did influence their second homes and Maria Elisabeth was at the forefront in Tyrol (one of the small but nevertheless important Habsburg domains) after Joseph died.

Definitely a great idea! The problem is a bit, I think, that (court) biography is not such a "sexy" topic in academia, which leaves the area to other writers who mostly recycle existing material but don't look for new sources in the archives (exceptions are Renate Zedinger on Franz I Stephan, Derek Beales on Josef II and certainly a few more).

Have not heard of that one of Franz Stephan - thank you for this - but Derek Beales's books on Joseph II are both fantastic.  More than worth their rather expensive price tags... I am rather reserved about (some) independent historians as they not only merely recycle information but also invent their own "facts" (speculation or conjecture is fine but should be stated as such - not presented as facts) . I would rather wait for a long time for works similar to Derek Beales's.

So, as far as the family is concerned, this is the summary as far as biographies are concerned?

Maria Theresa - numerous biographies but nothing as comprehensive as Beales's masterful work on Joseph II
Franz Stephan - with a number of biographies but nothing in English?
Maria Anna - half a book (life in Klangenfurt) + a publication on her convent
Joseph II- numerous biographies
Maria Christina - a few books in German
Maria Elisabeth - none; mentioned in the chronicles of Tyrol
Maria Amalia - 1932 biography in Italian
Leopold - a few biographies in German?
Maria Carolina - early 20th century biographies in English (Acton, Bearne) + a few in German
Ferdinand - ?
Marie Antoinette - countless books
Maximilian - ?
   
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 07:18:40 AM by prinzheinelgirl »
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Offline Bravecoeur

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #378 on: November 29, 2015, 06:48:16 AM »
I think Maria Elisabeth is also categorized as not interesting enough like Maria Anna - 'princesses at convents' and there were plenty of those at that era.  But they did influence their second homes
I totally agree!

I am rather reserved about (some) independent historians as they not only merely recycle information but also invent their own "facts" (speculation or conjecture is fine but should be stated as such - not presented as facts) .
I didn't want to be this harsh so I didn't say it this way - but essentially, again, I totally agree. :)

Have not heard of that one of Franz Stephan - thank you for this
You're welcome. Here is a link to the book: http://www.amazon.de/Schriftenreihe-oesterreichischen-Gesellschaft-Erforschung-Jahrhunderts/dp/3205781090/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448799788&sr=8-1&keywords=zedinger+franz+lothringen I have not found that it was translated. The author speaks French very well, which helps with this kind of research ;) so she might have published in French too...

I've updated the list:

Maria Theresa - numerous biographies but nothing as comprehensive as Beales's masterful work on Joseph II
Franz Stephan - a few biographies but nothing in English
Maria Anna - half a book (life in Klangenfurt) + a publication on her and her convent
Joseph II - numerous biographies
Maria Christina - a few books in German
Maria Elisabeth - none (apart from articles and notes) + a publication on her convent
Maria Amalia - 1932 biography in Italian, no German biography
Leopold - a few biographies in German*
Maria Carolina - early 20th century biographies in English (Acton, Bearne) + a few in German
Ferdinand - none (apart from articles and notes)**
Marie Antoinette - countless books
Maximilian - two biographies in German***
   
*There are numerous articles and specialised publications on Leopold, and also a few biographies in German, notably the two volumes by Adam Wandruszka (and as he reigned in Tuscany for so long, I am certain there are Italian biographies too but haven't checked):
Adam Wandruszka: Leopold II. Erzherzog von Österreich, Großherzog von Toskana, König von Ungarn und Böhmen, Römischer Kaiser, 2 Bände (Band I: 1747–1780, Band II: 1780–1792), Vienna, Munich 1963 and 1965.
Helga Peham: Leopold II. Herrscher mit weiser Hand. Styria, Graz u. a. 1987

** Have not found any biography as a book (there are certainly the articles in the volumes on MT's children and shorter biographical articles).

*** I checked. There are two German biographies on Maximilian Franz, both by the same author:
Max Braubach: Max Franz von Österreich, letzter Kurfürst und Fürstbischof von Münster. Versuch einer Biographie (etc.), Münster i. W.: Aschendorff, 1925
Max Braubach: Maria Theresias jüngster Sohn Max Franz. Letzter Kurfürst von Köln und Fürstbischof von Münster. Herold, Wien u. a. 1961.
Also there are number of special books on his role in certain political aspects in Münster and Colgne.

Offline prinzheinelgirl

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #379 on: December 17, 2015, 12:56:22 AM »
Franz Stephan had his own place in Vienna called "Kaiserhaus".  The link...

http://www.kaiserhaus.info/english/history.htm

Thank you to bravecoeur for the lead on this (book on Franz Stephan, which mentioned said palace) and for the wonderful update above.The book's summary mentions that FS amassed riches in only a short time and did not want any of his children to feel poor (did he feel poor at any point?).  I remember reading Maria Theresa was displeased/in despair that he didn't leave any big bequests to the other children and Joseph was the sole heir (But the family trust fund FS established should have taken care of keeping them in style with their rank).  MT was counting on the bequests. The summary of the book also states that FS is misjudged.

I see that Archduke Ferdinand is also neglected in terms of a biography but he seemed to have been appreciated by the people of Milan, nevertheless....
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 01:18:24 AM by prinzheinelgirl »
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Offline Greenowl

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #380 on: May 13, 2017, 03:04:00 PM »
Today, 13th. May 2017, marks 300 years since the birth of Empress Maria Theresia!

Offline Missing

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #381 on: June 23, 2017, 08:35:09 AM »
[image] [image] why do i always got these whenever i tried to post a photo?
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 08:37:19 AM by Missing »

Offline Missing

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #382 on: June 23, 2017, 09:00:50 AM »
Höfische Porträtkultur: Die Bildnissammlung der österreichischen Erzherzogin Maria Anna (1738-1789)
check out this book, though i didnt understand it but i has some good portrait of some descendant of MT , however it had a limited preview only in google book :(
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 09:02:28 AM by Missing »

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #383 on: June 23, 2017, 10:21:22 AM »
Because you can't upload photos directly here. You have to put it up on a different server, such as shutterfly or snapfish and then embed the code from there between the [img] tags, not [image]
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 03:22:19 PM by Forum Admin »

Offline prinzheinelgirl

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #384 on: December 28, 2018, 03:01:31 AM »
Very happy to find out that Maria Amalia has a new biography- after the first one published in 1932. It is not for sale but perhaps can be made available by request....

https://www.facebook.com/parmavpraze/photos/a.2020476721534278/2060250490890234/?type=3&theater

To update the list (and explanations) posted earlier by Bravecoeur:

Maria Theresa - numerous biographies but nothing as comprehensive as Beales's masterful work on Joseph II
Franz Stephan - a few biographies but nothing in English
Maria Anna - half a book (life in Klangenfurt) + a publication on her and her convent
Joseph II - numerous biographies
Maria Christina - a few books in German
Maria Elisabeth - none (apart from articles and notes) + a publication on her convent
Maria Amalia - 1932 biography in Italian, another one in 2018 (both not in German or English)
Leopold - a few biographies in German*
Maria Carolina - early 20th century biographies in English (Acton, Bearne) + a few in German
Ferdinand - none (apart from articles and notes)**
Marie Antoinette - countless books
Maximilian - two biographies in German***

*There are numerous articles and specialised publications on Leopold, and also a few biographies in German, notably the two volumes by Adam Wandruszka (and as he reigned in Tuscany for so long, I am certain there are Italian biographies too but haven't checked):
Adam Wandruszka: Leopold II. Erzherzog von Österreich, Großherzog von Toskana, König von Ungarn und Böhmen, Römischer Kaiser, 2 Bände (Band I: 1747–1780, Band II: 1780–1792), Vienna, Munich 1963 and 1965.
Helga Peham: Leopold II. Herrscher mit weiser Hand. Styria, Graz u. a. 1987

** Have not found any biography as a book (there are certainly the articles in the volumes on MT's children and shorter biographical articles).

*** I checked. There are two German biographies on Maximilian Franz, both by the same author:
Max Braubach: Max Franz von Österreich, letzter Kurfürst und Fürstbischof von Münster. Versuch einer Biographie (etc.), Münster i. W.: Aschendorff, 1925
Max Braubach: Maria Theresias jüngster Sohn Max Franz. Letzter Kurfürst von Köln und Fürstbischof von Münster. Herold, Wien u. a. 1961.
Also there are number of special books on his role in certain political aspects in Münster and Colgne.
   
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 03:14:38 AM by prinzheinelgirl »
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Offline CountessKate

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #385 on: June 24, 2019, 07:04:12 AM »
I solved a little archduchess portrait problem which has been nagging at me for years, recently - to my own satisfaction, at any rate.

Neumeister auctions has a very grand portrait of Maria Elisabeth by Johann Carl Auerbach for sale, dated 1763, at this link:
https://www.neumeister.com/kunstwerksuche/kunstwerksuche/ergebnis/233-224/Johann%20Karl%20%28Carl%29-Auerbach/
It reminds me very strongly of the portrait of Maria Amalia, stated to be by Johann Carl's father, Johann Gottfried Auerbach, sold by Bonhams in 2009:
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/16888/lot/57/
Bonhams included a notice stating it could not be Maria Amalia (as Johann Gottfried died in 1753, Maria Amalia would only have been eight), and I concluded it could be Maria Anna, who might just have made the grade at age 15 in 1753, the last point at which  the painter could have created a portrait, and whose facial characteristics seemed somewhat similar.  I had some reservations though as the hair looked a little too high to be much before 1760 (the suggestion that it could have been of one her aunts, the daughters of Joseph I, I dismissed on stylistic and costume grounds).
The Neumeister portrait, however, suggests quite strongly that the Auerbach who painted the Bonhams portrait, was actually Johann Carl, and the date close in time to that of the portrait of Maria Elisabeth, and therefore the subject of the portrait might indeed be Maria Amalia, aged around 17, rather than Maria Anna, aged around 25.  I have to say, though, the face still resembles Maria Anna more to me but confusing painters with similar names rather than the subject of the painting seems more likely.  I suppose the owners of the painting would have known it as "the portrait of Archduchess Maria Amalia by Auerbach", and since the only Auerbach of note was Johann Gottfried, Bonhams made a natural error.  The two paintings look rather nice together as a pair.

Offline prinzheinelgirl

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #386 on: December 17, 2019, 05:52:10 AM »
I solved a little archduchess portrait problem which has been nagging at me for years, recently - to my own satisfaction, at any rate.

Bonhams included a notice stating it could not be Maria Amalia (as Johann Gottfried died in 1753, Maria Amalia would only have been eight).....The Neumeister portrait, however, suggests quite strongly that the Auerbach who painted the Bonhams portrait, was actually Johann Carl, and the date close in time to that of the portrait of Maria Elisabeth, and therefore the subject of the portrait might indeed be Maria Amalia, aged around 17, rather than Maria Anna, aged around 25.  I have to say, though, the face still resembles Maria Anna more to me but confusing painters with similar names rather than the subject of the painting seems more likely.  I suppose the owners of the painting would have known it as "the portrait of Archduchess Maria Amalia by Auerbach", and since the only Auerbach of note was Johann Gottfried, Bonhams made a natural error.  The two paintings look rather nice together as a pair.

Thank you for that CountessKate. It's been puzzling me too. Amalia didn't look like a child, certainly at least a teenager.

Here is a link to a group portrait by van Meytens (Marianne, Joseph, Liesl, Charles and the last one is tentatively identified as Amalia - but who else could've worn a lace cap when the portrait was done? Certainly not Mimi. And it does look like Amalia. Also, from 1745-1750, Johanna was just a baby so not her). This one looks similar to another  group portrait, except without Mimi and Leopold.

It is found at the Hungarian National Museum. 

https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/the-children-of-maria-theresa-martin-van-meytens-circle/gAEKpaSh9CYWCA
« Last Edit: December 17, 2019, 06:14:00 AM by prinzheinelgirl »
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Offline prinzheinelgirl

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« Last Edit: December 17, 2019, 06:41:07 AM by prinzheinelgirl »
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Offline trentk80

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #388 on: March 17, 2020, 07:48:44 PM »
An article on the journey of archduchesses Maria Carolina and Maria Amalia to their new home was recently published in German. You can read the details of the book here:

https://searchworks.stanford.edu/view/12388553
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Offline trentk80

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Re: Empress Maria Theresa and her large family
« Reply #389 on: March 20, 2020, 01:45:43 PM »
In 2017 there was an Austrian-Czech TV series on the life of Empress Maria Theresa. You can watch the first episode (with English subtitles) here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTr7qgoVb74
« Last Edit: March 20, 2020, 01:51:48 PM by trentk80 »
Ladran los perros a la Luna, y ella con majestuoso desprecio prosigue el curso de su viaje.