Author Topic: Duke Miguel of Braganza and his family  (Read 205382 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Norbert

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 591
    • View Profile
Re: Duke Miguel of Braganza and his family
« Reply #60 on: December 23, 2007, 07:29:24 PM »
Thanks for the photo. I had never seen any of D.Isabel Maria.
Do you have any additional info on her, her husbands and son ?

Apparently she was known as Nada ( Nadejda being one of her christian names). Her first husband was Russian and they married in Cyprus. Second husband was a Lt. Free French Navy. She jumped to her death from a hotel window in London. She had a son and a granddaughter Tatiana born 1966.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 02:22:44 AM by trentk80 »

Offline Norbert

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 591
    • View Profile
Re: Duke Miguel of Braganza and his family
« Reply #61 on: December 23, 2007, 07:39:48 PM »
Any info or pics about her brothers Michael and John of Braganza, american citizens ?
I know one was an air pilot, not sure which ?

brothers  1)John died 1991 lived in long Island married twice and left a son Michael born 1951 and two grand daughters. 2) miguel called michael the pilot died palm beach 1996 and married twice and left two daughters Anita born 1947 Mrs John Stckbridge ( son and dau by !st marriage to George Wardman) Michele born 1953.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 02:23:47 AM by trentk80 »

Offline beladona

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 318
    • View Profile
Re: Duke Miguel of Braganza and his family
« Reply #62 on: August 15, 2008, 11:54:55 AM »
Danjel,
your pictures are great! Do you have a whole picture of Braganza sisters from which are the small pictures of Mafalda, Benedita and Isabel derived?

Offline Kaiserin Sissi

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 77
  • I Love Sissi and Franz Josef
    • View Profile
    • Site de l'Association Elisabeth Impératrice d'Autriche - Reine de Hongrie (Sissi)
Re: Duke Miguel of Braganza and his family
« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2008, 10:16:40 AM »
In the the book " les secrets de Mayerling" de Jean des Cars, the autor talk about Migel of Bragança who is promise to Mary Vetsera at the time she met Rodolphe. But who is "this" Miguel of Bragança ? Can you help me ? In the Same book JdC tell that is the brother of Archduchess Marie-Thérése, but "this" Miguel was married to Elisabeth of Thurn and Taxis and after is death with Thérése of Lowenstein... that is possible ?

Thank for your help ans sorry for my bad english.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2008, 10:45:05 AM by Kaiserin Sissi »

Offline MarieCharlotte

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1335
  • Sophie Charlotte (1847-1897)
    • View Profile
Re: Duke Miguel of Braganza and his family
« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2008, 01:48:01 PM »
In the the book " les secrets de Mayerling" de Jean des Cars, the autor talk about Migel of Bragança who is promise to Mary Vetsera at the time she met Rodolphe. But who is "this" Miguel of Bragança ? Can you help me ? In the Same book JdC tell that is the brother of Archduchess Marie-Thérése, but "this" Miguel was married to Elisabeth of Thurn and Taxis and after is death with Thérése of Lowenstein... that is possible ?

Yes, this is possible. Miguel (1853-1927), son of Miguel I. (1802-1866) and Adelheid von Löwenstein-Wertheim-Rosenberg (1831-1909), married Elisabeth of Thurn und Taxis - a niece of Empress Elisabeth of Austria, by the way - in 1877. 3 1/2 years later - in 1881 - , Elisabeth died shortly after she had given birth to her daughter Maria Teresa. This means, Miguel was a widower until November 1893, when he married his second wife Marie Therese.

There would have been enough time for him to marry Mary Vetsera - but we all know that this didn't happen.
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline REMI

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 392
    • View Profile
Re: Duke Miguel of Braganza and his family
« Reply #65 on: August 17, 2008, 10:32:59 AM »
I did not read the book of M. Jean des Cars which you are talking about. But I guess it is a novel. The authors of historical novels may allow themselves to everything. They mix fiction and reality and attribute to real personages some adventures totally invented (A l'instar de notre Alexandre Dumas, maître du genre). The Vetsera were too small for nobility that the Head of the House of Bragança thought to marry the little baroness who was only 16 years old and came from Cairo...
Besides, the Vetsera were not received by the Court of Vienna, at the Hofburg Palace...

REMI

Offline MarieCharlotte

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1335
  • Sophie Charlotte (1847-1897)
    • View Profile
Re: Duke Miguel of Braganza and his family
« Reply #66 on: August 17, 2008, 11:53:29 AM »
Of course, there are a lot of authors who invent things. Not in this case. There were indeed rumours that Miguel would marry Mary Vetsera.
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline REMI

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 392
    • View Profile
Re: Duke Miguel of Braganza and his family
« Reply #67 on: August 17, 2008, 02:39:04 PM »
Sorry, Marie-Charlotte....A historian doesn't take a interest in rumours. Only in facts proved. For me, rumours and inventions are the same thing. As you say, " we all know that this didn't happen..."

REMI

Offline MarieCharlotte

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1335
  • Sophie Charlotte (1847-1897)
    • View Profile
Re: Duke Miguel of Braganza and his family
« Reply #68 on: August 17, 2008, 03:09:33 PM »
I think you didn't understand what I wanted to say. There are a couple of authors who wrote about Miguel's plans concerning this marriage. Even Countess Nora Fugger mentioned it in her memoirs.
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline REMI

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 392
    • View Profile
Re: Duke Miguel of Braganza and his family
« Reply #69 on: August 18, 2008, 02:51:33 AM »
I think you didn't understand what I wanted to say. There are a couple of authors who wrote about Miguel's plans concerning this marriage. Even Countess Nora Fugger mentioned it in her memoirs.

I didn't understand what you said ? But you did write that "there were indeed rumours..."
History and gossiping of parlour-maid don't live happily together.

REMI

Offline trentk80

  • Moderator
  • Boyar
  • *****
  • Posts: 206
    • View Profile
Re: Duke Miguel of Braganza and his family
« Reply #70 on: August 18, 2008, 10:33:24 AM »
The authors of historical novels may allow themselves to everything. They mix fiction and reality and attribute to real personages some adventures totally invented.

Not only authors of historical novels but, unfortunately, some authors of historical books sometimes also do it. For instance, recently I had the opportunity to meet a royal author - I'm not going to tell the name - and pointed out some inaccurate things I found in a book this person wrote. The author (who is an historian, not a novelist) didn't seem to care and I was a bit surprised when I heard the reply: "Nevermind. I'm an author so I'm allowed to write whatever I want."
« Last Edit: August 18, 2008, 10:56:29 AM by trentk80 »
Ladran los perros a la Luna, y ella con majestuoso desprecio prosigue el curso de su viaje.

Offline REMI

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 392
    • View Profile
Re: Duke Miguel of Braganza and his family
« Reply #71 on: August 18, 2008, 01:53:51 PM »
I agree with you. The  probem is that too many historians rely in memoirs of famous people who give counterfeited versions of reality.
Marie Charlotte, in her message of June 18  2006, said herself about Nora Fugger whom she was referring to yesterday:"...she wrote about little scandals in the Imperial Family.Nora loved gossips.
I think that the Fugger is also hardly credile than the Walersee Larish who has written anything and accumulated enormous lies.... 

REMI

Offline Svetabel

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4883
    • View Profile
    • http://svetabella.livejournal.com/
Re: Duke Miguel of Braganza and his family
« Reply #72 on: August 19, 2008, 12:31:57 AM »
The authors of historical novels may allow themselves to everything. They mix fiction and reality and attribute to real personages some adventures totally invented.

I was a bit surprised when I heard the reply: "Nevermind. I'm an author so I'm allowed to write whatever I want."

So I'd say the person is not a true historian but a novelist in fact as a true historian is always accurate with the facts. Surely such historians with clean opinions and critical mind are a rare find.

Offline MarieCharlotte

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1335
  • Sophie Charlotte (1847-1897)
    • View Profile
Re: Duke Miguel of Braganza and his family
« Reply #73 on: August 19, 2008, 11:10:37 AM »
REMI, I just wanted to say that "Kaiserin Sissi's" question about Miguel and Mary Vetsera was justified. I have 300 books about the Habsburgs and I read repeatedly about the fact that Miguel felt attracted to Mary. Nora Fugger wasn't a good example - my fault -, but also other authors wrote about them. Vienna's society loved gossip and that's why it isn't surprising that some people thought of a possible marriage. Of course, we don't know Miguel's real opinion about it. So there aren't any historical facts (but I knew that before you listened me to reason ...) -  Marie
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline REMI

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 392
    • View Profile
Re: Duke Miguel of Braganza and his family
« Reply #74 on: August 19, 2008, 03:08:05 PM »
Dear Marie-Charlotte. I suppose many men in Vienna in 1888 were attracted by the Vetsera...Not only Miguel de Bragança. Her mother was trying to find evrywhere a husband for her daughter and the Wallersee acted as a pimp....Miguel might have fallen in love with this little Mary. Why not? But to consider a marriage with her, there is an abyss. Don't forget, Miguel was the Head of the House of Bragança.

REMI