Author Topic: Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #4  (Read 49855 times)

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Offline AGRBear

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Re: Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #4
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2005, 04:34:19 PM »
I agree, at this time, that there are differences between AA and FS with the data we've been given.

As to the DNA,  I have no reason to deny the fact that the tests with the intestines and  Karl Maucher show a match.

We are told the intestine and hair were AA's.

We are told Karl Maucher was the grandson of Gertrude S. and that their mtDNA testing matched the intestine and hair which we are told are AA's.

I am not convinced that Gertrude S. was the full sister of FS.  If they had different mothers than we can not link AA's DNA to FS.

I do not know if FS and AA are the same person.

Therefore, the questions I've asked are to discover if FS and AA are or are not the same person.

AGRBear

"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Lanie

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Re: Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #4
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2005, 04:38:56 PM »
Quote
I am not convinced that Gertrude S. was the full sister of FS.  If they had different mothers than we can not link AA's DNA to FS.


*sigh* Not to bring this up again, Bear, but don't you understand that if they were half-sisters, the DNA would not have turned up a match?  :-/

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #4
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2005, 12:26:26 PM »
If FS and Gertrude were not sisters, they might have been first cousins [through the mother's lineage because we're talking about mtDNA] or second cousins or third cousins..... If there wasn't a mutation, the cousinship could be up to tenth .....  Even as far back as twenty five.

That covers a lot of people which of course would be filtered down to a woman born about the same time as AA.

There is no need to deny the DNA tests.  All we really know at this time is  AA was related to Gertrude S.  who's sister/half sister was FS.  And, they apparently didn't all have the same noses  ;D.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Candice

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Re: Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #4
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2005, 03:35:22 PM »
AA and FS look like the same person to me.

Taking photos from one angle and then a different angle of a same individual, the noses can give the impression of difference.  AA and FS have the same shape nose just different angle. Same with the eyes.  Visually the hairline, the angle and distance of the ears, the distance between the eyes are  the same. Even her neck and shoulders are the same shape and length.
 
If AA and FS were different people the facial characteristics, shape angle and width etc. would be totally different.  Even if there were some resemblances between the two.

However, in the case of the above two photos of AA and FS they are one and same person.

Candice
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Candice »

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #4
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2005, 08:19:04 PM »
Could someone, please, tell me where the photographs of Anna Anderson which were taken at Dalldorf  [front view and side view] can be found?

Thanks

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Val289

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Re: Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #4
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2005, 08:51:45 PM »
Hi Bear - I believe that both photos can be found in Peter Kurth's Tsar   :)

Kind Regards,
Val :)

modified to say :  Oops - maybe we're not talking about the same ones.  The ones I am thinking of were actually taken by the Berlin police.  If those will help you they are on page 210 in Tsar in my edition :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Val289 »

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #4
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2005, 09:03:09 PM »
That's them.  Thanks.  
AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

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Re: Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #4
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2005, 09:06:08 PM »
You're very welcome :)   Glad those were the ones you were looking for!

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #4
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2005, 10:50:26 AM »
I assume the Berlin police didn't take her away from the asylum but probably took her outside where they photographed her, but, I may be wrong.  Anyone know for sure?

I scan the photo and placed it back into my first post, page 1, first post.

Again, thanks.

Now, I see Nicholas II's photo, which showed his profile,  is missing.  Guess I need to find one.  Any suggestions?

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Val289

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Re: Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #4
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2005, 06:03:49 PM »
Quote
I assume the Berlin police didn't take her away from the asylum but probably took her outside where they photographed her, but, I may be wrong.  Anyone know for sure?
..........


AGRBear


Bear-

In the first few pages of Kurth's Riddle of Anna Anderson he states that the Berlin police came back to Dalldorf in the beginning of June (of 1920) to take those pictures.    The doctors at Dalldorf had actually summoned the police there and asked them to make a serious effort to find out who AA was, because the doctors felt they weren't equipped to.  Hope this helps :)

Kind Regards,
Val :)

Offline etonexile

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Re: Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #4
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2005, 08:59:37 PM »
Quote
AA and FS look like the same person to me.
 
Taking photos from one angle and then a different angle of a same individual, the noses can give the impression of difference.  AA and FS have the same shape nose just different angle. Same with the eyes.  Visually the hairline, the angle and distance of the ears, the distance between the eyes are  the same. Even her neck and shoulders are the same shape and length.
  
If AA and FS were different people the facial characteristics, shape angle and width etc. would be totally different.  Even if there were some resemblances between the two.

However, in the case of the above two photos of AA and FS they are one and same person.

Candice


And DNA tells us they were the same person....hey,presto....!!!

Finelly

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Re: Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #4
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2005, 09:08:34 PM »
Eton, honey, PLEASE stop jumping to such rash conclusions!  

Offline etonexile

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Re: Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #4
« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2005, 08:56:35 AM »
T-heezer...OK...AA and FS are 99% certain to be the same person...Or were there several members of FA's family gone missing in WWI....?

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #4
« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2005, 09:57:43 AM »
Quote

Bear-

In the first few pages of Kurth's Riddle of Anna Anderson he states that the Berlin police came back to Dalldorf in the beginning of June (of 1920) to take those pictures.    The doctors at Dalldorf had actually summoned the police there and asked them to make a serious effort to find out who AA was, because the doctors felt they weren't equipped to.  Hope this helps :)

Kind Regards,
Val :)


After taking these photographs they sent them all around Germany, including Posen area, and asked if anyone reconzed Miss Unknown [AA] but no one did,  then they sent to these same photographs to asylums.... Not even the one AA had been in a number of times -- one for a good lenght of time-- reconized the photographs of Miss Unkown [AA].

At this time, DNA can not tell us that AA was FS.  

The DNA can tell us that AA was related to Gertrude S..

At this time, we do not know if Gertrude S. was a full sister, half sister or even related to FS.....

And, yes, it's difficult to match noses of AA to the old small photo of FS which may or may not have been altered.  We're not sure the one we've been duplicating is from the original.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Finelly

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Re: Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #4
« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2005, 10:35:17 AM »
Maybe Gertrude is Olga!!!! That would explain the similarities.....