Author Topic: NAOTMAA - Their Contributions to Russia  (Read 40596 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline RealAnastasia

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1890
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: OTMA's Nursing at WW I
« Reply #75 on: October 09, 2006, 07:38:56 PM »
I think that none work could sit better to Alix and the girls than nurse's one. They were suffering along, with their country. England's princess were also nurses (I think there is a pic of Princess Mary wearing a nurse costume), and here , in all countries I read about, young girls and older ladies from high class circles, worked as nurses when there was a war around, or a natural catastrophe happens.

Alix was wounded along with her country; her heart was bleeding these awful days. And she felt close to Russian soul , helping common Russian people. She also tryed to show Olga and Tatiana the dark side of the war (I think that once, the Tsar bring Alexei to see injured soldiers in order to him to realize that war was not all about happy military marchs and bayonets shinning under the sun or comradery meals). I admire this Empress and her two beatiful and sensitive girls who had the courage to aproach the horros of the war and to know a little about daily Russian reality.

RealAnastasia.

Offline James1941

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 399
    • View Profile
Re: OTMA's Nursing at WW I
« Reply #76 on: October 10, 2006, 12:46:07 AM »
For RealAnastasia: I am going to debate a few points with you. Not because I wish to disparage  your admiration for Alexandra and her two daughters with regard to their nursing in the hospital. That is your absolute right and I have no right to gainsay it. However, I do disagree with several of the points you make to bolster that admiration. Please take this post as a dialog of interest not an attack on your personal beliefs.
Firstly: Princess Mary of Great Britain, Olga Alexandrovna, other royal ladies, and ladies of the nobility and wives of wealthy men who became nurses during the war are not equal to an empress. If you cite me one other empress or queen who donned a nurses uniform and worked full time in a hospital all during the war I will accede the point. My point is that an empress/queen had far more important duties to perform in her position that to hide herself away in a hospital in a compound guarded by scores of soldiers and sailors, to the neglect of her other duties. She simply did not understand her job. Secondly: as to her feeling close to the common Russian people, to the Russian soul, here is what she wrote to Nicholas in a letter on 14 December, 1916, just a few months away from the beginning of the revolution: "Be firm. I your wall, behind you and won't give way - I know He (Rasputin) leads us right. It's getting calmer and better, only one wants to feel Youir Hand - how long, years, people have told me the same - "Russia loves to feel the whip' -its their nature - tender love and then the iron hand to punish and guide." Here is the wife of the ruler talking about whipping her subjects, lashing them because they want it. If this is love for the common people then you can have her love, give me something else. This was the same excuse whitle slave owners in the American south used to justify their horrible treatment of their black slaves. The slaves were savages and couldn't be controlled unless they were whipped now and again. In another letter to her husband the same year she relates how a young officer who was wounded and was being treated in the hospital of which Marie and Anastasia were patrons had been sent away because he spoke out against something Rasputin had done. Some concern for the poor wounded soldiers! The poor woman didn't have a clue as to what the "real" Russian people wanted.
Thirdly, you write that she wanted to show the girls a little about daily Russian life. I don't think spending a few hours working in a hospital that was warm, well lit, and had plenty of food was showing them much about the daily life of most Russians, especially when they went home to a warm palace, that was stocked with food, and where they were waited on hand and foot by an army of servants. The commandant of the Ipatiev House relates that the four grand duchesses didn't even known how to properly wash their underwear. He had to buy a book and call in some people to show them how to wash clothes. So much for them knowing how real people lived. Fourthly, when workers from the factories and women went out in the streets of Petrograd in February, 1917, to protest the lack of fuel (they were freezing) and the fact they had to stand in line for hour after hour to get a small bit of food, Alexandra wrote to Nicholas this: "It's a hooligan movement, young boys and girls running about and screaming they have no bread, only to excite - then the workmen preventing others from work - if it were very cold they would probably stay indoors. But this will pass and quieten down - if the Duma would only behave itself - one does not print its worst speeches." The woman had no idea what the real situation was. If she had gotten out and among her people she would have seen how the real Russian lived, not how she perceived them in her fantasy.

Offline imperial angel

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4608
    • View Profile
Re: OTMA's Nursing at WW I
« Reply #77 on: October 10, 2006, 11:29:33 AM »
Well, I think that the nursing was more realistic than some things otma could have done, and was closer to real life. They were not merely figure heads, they were actually doing somethimg constructive. They most likely learned much from it. I also think the soldiers were pleased to have otma around. If Alexandra wasn't a nurse as well, that was not a good examole for her daughters. She almost had to be if they were, and more than that, since it was beneficial for Tatiana at least, it was good that she was. I

I am not sure how the soldiers thought of her, but at least she was doing something more than many Czarinas would have. She was contributing, whatever way you want to look at it. You can see it badly, or can you can choose to see it in a positive light. There were other things that she could have done, perhaps better ones. But she chose to get involved at the level that was comfortable for her, and did well in that sphere. Of course, at times her view was unrealistic, but she was often put in a position where she was bound to be so in her outlook. She just believed that historically, the Russians needed force. She perhaps meant it a more figurative way, that they needed iron goverment, i.e. autocracy, not that they needed beating or whatever.

Offline James1941

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 399
    • View Profile
Re: OTMA's Nursing at WW I
« Reply #78 on: October 10, 2006, 12:49:44 PM »
When she wrote Nicholas that "they" should be taken out and shot, hung up, was she speaking figuratively. She was talking about some members of the Duma. And I question her "lady bountiful" attitude toward her hospital work. Why didn't they go work in an ordinary hospital, filled with common soldiers, instead of a small hospital in which the "officers only" patients were carefully selected. Her sister-in-law Olga could have given her some pointers on that. I will agree with you on one point. You see her as someone to admire. I don't. I see her as a mentally unstable woman who did great harm. So let us agree to disagree.

Offline James1941

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 399
    • View Profile
Re: OTMA's Nursing at WW I
« Reply #79 on: October 10, 2006, 03:08:29 PM »
And to imperial angel, please see my post apologizing to you on the thread of How Well Did Nicholas Know Alexandra. I hope you will accept my apology.

Offline imperial angel

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4608
    • View Profile
Re: OTMA's Nursing at WW I
« Reply #80 on: October 11, 2006, 08:46:18 AM »
Yes, the duma did seem to get Alexandra upset. No doubt it was because she viewed the very existence of the Duma as a infringement on her husband's perogative as autocrat. She wanted to preserve her son's inheiritance. Alexandra perhaps should have been in a ordinary hospital, but she would have been even more out of place there than in an officer's one, surely. I think she had the right motives when she became a nurse, to me. It was better than her views on goverment. I think she had some things to admire in her, yes, but we are all only human. Ella is more the type to wholeheartedly admire. I try to be realistic, but also not just condemn somone for things they didn't do, in my opinion.

Offline Laura Mabee

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2175
  • Art in Avatar done by Lisa!
    • View Profile
    • Frozentears.Org
Re: NAOTMAA - Their Contributions to Russia
« Reply #81 on: September 23, 2008, 01:45:42 PM »
Hey Gang,
So I'm trying to think of examples in which Nicholas, Alexandra, and family did things in return to Russia.
A few come to mind -

There is the obvious:
Alix, Olga, and Tatiana nursing during WWI, and Maria and Anastasia giving the guards company

And then there is the obscure:
- I heard once that Alix tried to start up a knitting society among Russian women, to give the knitted items to charity. (Although I heard it didn't go over well, at least her thoughts were in the right place).
- Olga N. giving her "allowance" to the poor

What am I missing? I believe as a group, the seven were quite charitable, but for the life of me I can't think of anything aside from the above examples.

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: NAOTMAA - Their Contributions to Russia
« Reply #82 on: September 23, 2008, 02:33:04 PM »
Tatiana headed a refugee committee during WWI. I believe Olga also had a committee of some sort, but I don't recall the details.
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline Laura Mabee

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2175
  • Art in Avatar done by Lisa!
    • View Profile
    • Frozentears.Org
Re: NAOTMAA - Their Contributions to Russia
« Reply #83 on: September 23, 2008, 02:44:52 PM »
Thanks Sarushka! Can always count on ya!
Thank you for the info, I'll look into it, and see if I can find any info on those committees.

Offline Ally Kumari

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3095
    • View Profile
    • Imperial Russia
Re: NAOTMAA - Their Contributions to Russia
« Reply #84 on: September 23, 2008, 02:49:57 PM »
Though the help may not be the greatest, little OTMA were all knitting socks and other things for soldiers during Russia-Japaneese war, and also floded into envelopes little letters that could soldiers fill and send to their families.

Offline Laura Mabee

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2175
  • Art in Avatar done by Lisa!
    • View Profile
    • Frozentears.Org
Re: NAOTMAA - Their Contributions to Russia
« Reply #85 on: September 23, 2008, 08:27:40 PM »
Thanks GDAlly! I'll look into that too...

What does everyone think? Did Nicholas and his family make contributions back to Russia?

Offline Michael HR

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 645
  • Imperial Corps Des Pages
    • View Profile
Re: NAOTMAA - Their Contributions to Russia
« Reply #86 on: September 24, 2008, 05:24:45 AM »
I'm sure they did but may have kept the source private and from public gaze. The accounts of the Emperor and Empress might show what went out in this way?
Remembering the Imperial Corps Des Pages - The Spirit of Imperial Russia


Offline Ally Kumari

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3095
    • View Profile
    • Imperial Russia
Re: NAOTMAA - Their Contributions to Russia
« Reply #87 on: September 24, 2008, 05:40:17 AM »
Iīve also read somewhere that Maria was saving money for crippled children also.

Alix was also giving old clothes to poor - but before giving them she always changed the shell buttons for normal ones.

Donīt know if itīs a contribution, but Nicolas also abbandoned a tradition of every village (?) giving him a golden plate (probably every eyar) and he only accepted bread since then, knowing that some villages just couldnīt afford such thing.

Offline Michael HR

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 645
  • Imperial Corps Des Pages
    • View Profile
Re: NAOTMAA - Their Contributions to Russia
« Reply #88 on: September 24, 2008, 05:53:43 AM »
He must have had a lot of golden plates by then! Wise move IMHO
Remembering the Imperial Corps Des Pages - The Spirit of Imperial Russia


Offline nena

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2927
  • But every spring smells like you.
    • View Profile
Re: NAOTMAA - Their Contributions to Russia
« Reply #89 on: September 24, 2008, 08:09:46 AM »
Alexandra Feodorovna opened some schools and lazarets...... ;)
-Ars longa, vita brevis -
Mathematics, art and history in ♥