Author Topic: Palace Servant Uniform  (Read 9822 times)

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Offline Scott

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Palace Servant Uniform
« on: May 17, 2004, 10:52:28 PM »
I have a palace servant's uniform that I would like some help on identifying the exact title of the wearer (footman, doorman, waiter, etc.), and the specific duties of the wearer - in Russian and English.

A photo of a set of uniforms (from the Cameron Gallery exhibit), including one like mine (far right), can be found at the following website:

http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/camerongallery.htm

Similar uniforms can be found in several of the photo books discussed in the AP forum, and are featured in several movies - such as the Rasputin movie with Alan Rickman.

The individuals wearing these uniforms are usually leading one or more persons, including the tsar.

Any thoughts?

Scott

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Re: Palace Servant Uniform
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2004, 09:30:36 AM »

Offline Scott

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Re: Palace Servant Uniform
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2004, 02:21:13 PM »
Kammer fourier?  Hof-Fourier? Footman?  Escort Servant? Other?

Offline Scott

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Re: Palace Servant Uniform
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2004, 02:38:23 PM »
Here's the photo from the Cameron Gallery Exhibit mentioned above:


Offline Scott

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Re: Palace Servant Uniform
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2005, 10:44:17 PM »
The Kremlin - May 25, 1913:



Does this help?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Scott »

Offline Scott

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Re: Palace Servant Uniform
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2005, 01:38:36 AM »
Better Photos.

Front:



Back:


Offline Patrokl

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Re: Palace Servant Uniform
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2005, 05:21:04 PM »
Quote


The visor cap in this photo does not belong to this servants uniform. It is incorrectly matched in this photo. The visor cap is for an officer in "His Majesties Own Guard Hussar Regiment".

The uniform appears to be a Royal Livery uniform (Royal Coachman) for the front driver of a Royal or official coach. The zig-zag braid indicates that this person was a personal Royal Coachman for a General or Minister. The single epaulet would have a cypher insignia in the center denoting who this coachman was a driver for. A uniform denoting that this coachman was for someone of the Royal House would have the braid of the uniform decorated in Imperial Russian eagles.

Offline Patrokl

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Re: Palace Servant Uniform
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2005, 05:28:20 PM »
Quote
Here's the photo from the Cameron Gallery Exhibit mentioned above:


In this photo are three uniforms for the Royal Livery ( Royal Coachmen). The first uniform would be for the front driver of a Royal Coach and the second uniform is for the rear driver of a Royal coach. The uniforms are decorated with Imperial eagles indicating that these Livery personnel where assign to someone in the Royal House. The single epaulette would have a cypher in the center indicating which person of Royalty this Coachman drove for. The third uniform lacking Imperial Eagles is for a Royal Coachman  forward driver for a General or Minister.

Offline Scott

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Re: Palace Servant Uniform
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2005, 06:13:37 PM »
As pointed out, the forage cap (and the coronation menu) are not related to the servant's uniform.  I have a collection that includes many items (including a dolman for HM Hussars that goes with the cap) and the cap and menu just happen to be in the photo with the uniform.  See the following photo:

Offline Scott

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Re: Palace Servant Uniform
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2005, 06:26:34 PM »
And as follows:


David_Pritchard

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Re: Palace Servant Uniform
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2005, 10:05:25 PM »
Are you asking for an identification of the military uniforms in the last photograph?

White cap with yellow band and piping: His Imperial Majesty's Life Guard Cuirassiers Regiment

Red cap with red band and piping along with the matching tunic: His Imperial Majesty's Life Guard Hussar Regiment

Blue tunic with silver buttons, black cuffs and red piping looks like an engineer regiment tunic, however the monogramed "PP" epaulets do not show in the 1910 Army Regulations. From what period does the tunic date?                  

DAP    
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by David_Pritchard »

Offline Patrokl

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Re: Palace Servant Uniform
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2005, 07:47:04 AM »
Quote
Are you asking for an identification of the military uniforms in the last photograph?


Blue tunic with silver buttons, black cuffs and red piping looks like an engineer regiment tunic, however the monogramed "PP" epaulets do not show in the 1910 Army Regulations. From what period does the tunic date?                  

DAP    


Blue Tunic is for a staff officer, rank of Colonel, in the officers Medical Academy founded by Peter the Great thus the monogram ciphers "PP". Tunic is circa 1910-1914 dress.

Offline Scott

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Re: Palace Servant Uniform
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2005, 01:25:40 PM »
My original question concerned only the identity of the Palace Servant uniform.

The identity of the other items is known.  The identification of the HM LG Hussar's dolman and cap, the HM LG cur. cap, and the medical officer's tunic are all correct.  FYI - Only medical officers had the crescent-moon metal part on their epaulettes.