Author Topic: Nicknames of IF's friends, servants, household, retainers, etc.  (Read 26354 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rodney_G.

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 840
  • an angel .....and the best of them
    • View Profile
Re: Nicknames of IF's friends, servants, household, retainers, etc.
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2012, 02:05:27 PM »
Antonina you're so precious *_*
Since i'm translating something about it, this list will be so useful... thanks so many times *.*
You're very welcome, I'm glad to help you))
I remember reading in Olga's 1913 diary that " Dear S " was for"  Sweetie Pie" , I'll see if I can  find it. 
Maybe " Sweetie Pie"is an English adaptation.  The literal translation is probably Sunny, Happyness or Treasure, because Olga wrote S. with adjectives in neuter gender form, and in Russian there are not so many endearing neuter gender nicknames ..

New portion:
Sofia Ivanovna Tutcheva, OTMA's teacher - Savanna
Elizabeth Naryshkina,  Alexandra's lady-in-waiting - Zizi
Elizabeth Shuvalova - Betsy
Anastasia Gendrikova,  Alexandra's lady-in-waiting - Nasten'ka

6. Baroness Sophie Buxhoeveden, Alexandra's lady-in-waiting---Sophie
And also Iza... But how "Sophie" becomes "Iza"? Russian rules of grammar can't explain this)))
I can't believe I originally had Sophie Buxhoeveden's nickname as "Sophie"! Would you believe I meant "Isa"? Whayt can I say?

But Savanna for Sophie Tiutcheva is a new one on me and a nice find.
Rodney G.

Offline blessOTMA

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2525
  • Tell me the truth, monsieur
    • View Profile
    • Stay at Home Artist
Re: Nicknames of IF's friends, servants, household, retainers, etc.
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2012, 02:03:47 AM »
Quote
Maybe " Sweetie Pie"is an English adaptation.
...oh I think it was. I can certainly see English terms cropping up as the girls spoke English to Alix. "Sweetie Pie was used briefly, then he became " My S. "  for the most part . Here's a great page about Sophie "Savanna"Tiutcheva  http://e-gerontidy.livejournal.com/217826.html#t1778146

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Inok Nikolai

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 483
  • Irkutsk, Russia 1977
    • View Profile
Re: Nicknames of IF's friends, servants, household, retainers, etc.
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2012, 04:10:24 AM »

But Savanna for Sophie Tiutcheva is a new one on me and a nice find.

In case it's not obvious, "Savanna" was formed by the Imperial children simply merging together her first name and patronymic. Thus, "Sophia Ivanovna" became "Savanna".
инок Николай

Offline Sarushka

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: Nicknames of IF's friends, servants, household, retainers, etc.
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2012, 08:36:09 AM »
Quote
Maybe " Sweetie Pie"is an English adaptation.
...oh I think it was. I can certainly see English terms cropping up as the girls spoke English to Alix. "Sweetie Pie was used briefly, then he became " My S. "  for the most part .

I'm suspicious of "sweetie pie" -- it sounds more American than British to me. (Anyone overseas feel free to correct me!)

The only time I've seen "sweetie pie" used was in Marina Petrov's translation of Olga's 1913 diary. As far as I know, Olga's diary was written entirely in Russian, so "sweetie pie" was likely chosen by Ms. Petrov to represent a Russian endearment that didn't translate neatly into English -- perhaps солнышко (solnishko), which is literally an affectionate term for "sun." IMO solnishko is a good fit because it begins with S, and can be translated variously into English as sunshine, dear, darling, sweetheart, etc. Solnishko would also dovetail perfectly with the imperial family's other sun-based endearments such as Sunny, Sunbeam, and Golden One.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 08:40:49 AM by Sarushka »
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline Antonina

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 160
    • View Profile
    • saltkrakan.livejournal
Re: Nicknames of IF's friends, servants, household, retainers, etc.
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2012, 09:42:25 AM »
I agree, Savanna is a very funny name. In Imperial Russia giving nicknames for teachers was very popular, but I wonder why OTMAA's tutors did allow children to name them in this way...

What strikes me most, anyway, is that we know the IF loved so much nickanames and used them for the people around them and then... did not use common Russian nicknames between themsleves O_O 
Yes, it is strange. And you know, some russian Romanov fans usually write in their blogs and fictions "Tanechka", "Nastenka Romanova" and it sounds a bit strange to me)) But we do not know exactly what names did they use in private talk, maybe sometimes there were "Olja" and "Tanja". This discussion is for the other thread)

IMO solnishko is a good fit because it begins with S, and can be translated variously into English as sunshine, dear, darling, sweetheart, etc. Solnishko would also dovetail perfectly with the imperial family's other sun-based endearments such as Sunny, Sunbeam, and Golden One.
Of course - and Solnishko is a neuter gender word (like Schastie 'hapyness' and Sokrovishe 'treasure'), so she could write "моё Солнышко".
...Столетья поплывут из темноты.

Offline blessOTMA

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2525
  • Tell me the truth, monsieur
    • View Profile
    • Stay at Home Artist
Re: Nicknames of IF's friends, servants, household, retainers, etc.
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2012, 06:38:14 PM »
Quote
The only time I've seen "sweetie pie" used was in Marina Petrov's translation of Olga's 1913 diary.
of course that's where I saw it...
Quote
IMO" solnishko"  is a good fit because it begins with S, and can be translated variously into English as sweetheart, dear, darling, sweetheart,
Then why not say sunshine  sweetheart..." Sweetie Pie"  is a big  leap from that lol

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Sarushka

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: Nicknames of IF's friends, servants, household, retainers, etc.
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2012, 12:18:14 PM »
Quote
IMO" solnishko"  is a good fit because it begins with S, and can be translated variously into English as sweetheart, dear, darling, sweetheart,
Then why not say sunshine  sweetheart..." Sweetie Pie"  is a big  leap from that lol

I don't know how familiar Ms. Petrov is with the Imperial Family. Perhaps she wasn't aware of their other sunshiny nicknames. That's the main difficulty of translation -- knowing when to translate literally and when to choose a parallel word that conveys the sense of the original expression more directly. For example, if you were translating "sweetie pie" from English into Russian, you probably wouldn't use the literal "милая пирог" (dear pie) -- unless you happened to know that the speaker's family favored endearments based on foods, like honey, sugar, and dumpling. Translation is always a delicate balance between preserving the cultural flavor of the original while conveying meaning as smoothly as possible. Texts and translators are rarely flexible enough to do both all the time.
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline Kalafrana

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2912
    • View Profile
Re: Nicknames of IF's friends, servants, household, retainers, etc.
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2012, 01:02:36 PM »
Mon petit choui] translates as 'my little cabbage', which sounds most peculiar in English!

Offline Sunny

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 828
  • Царь Николай, твоё имя - любовь
    • View Profile
Re: Nicknames of IF's friends, servants, household, retainers, etc.
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2012, 08:01:48 AM »
That's the main difficulty of translation -- knowing when to translate literally and when to choose a parallel word that conveys the sense of the original expression more directly. For example, if you were translating "sweetie pie" from English into Russian, you probably wouldn't use the literal "милая пирог" (dear pie) -- unless you happened to know that the speaker's family favored endearments based on foods, like honey, sugar, and dumpling. Translation is always a delicate balance between preserving the cultural flavor of the original while conveying meaning as smoothly as possible. Texts and translators are rarely flexible enough to do both all the time.

I can't help saying you're perfectly right. I'm not a translator and hasn't the skills to be, but in the college i took classes with translation students, and i can say you're so right.
As a linguist, i can confirm you that I often read a text in another language and its meaning is clear into my mind, but i wouldn't be able to express it in my mothertongue.
Please visit my site
http://thelostworldofnaotmaa.wordpress.com/

Banner courtesy of GD Ally

Offline blessOTMA

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2525
  • Tell me the truth, monsieur
    • View Profile
    • Stay at Home Artist
Re: Nicknames of IF's friends, servants, household, retainers, etc.
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2012, 10:02:31 AM »
Quote
I don't know how familiar Ms. Petrov is with the Imperial Family. Perhaps she wasn't aware of their other sunshiny nicknames
That well could be  the case...and since the reader interested in Romanovs would be quite aware of it, to not use a type of sunshine term  there gains more significance that it should. Thanks for the info about the word  "solnishko"

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Antonina

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 160
    • View Profile
    • saltkrakan.livejournal
Re: Nicknames of IF's friends, servants, household, retainers, etc.
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2014, 11:57:29 PM »
Now I can say with certainty that Olga's S meant Solnyshko - Sunny. Not "счастье", "сокровище" or "Sweetie pie". She has written it in a full version several times.
...Столетья поплывут из темноты.

Offline blessOTMA

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2525
  • Tell me the truth, monsieur
    • View Profile
    • Stay at Home Artist
Re: Nicknames of IF's friends, servants, household, retainers, etc.
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2014, 10:37:45 AM »
Now I can say with certainty that Olga's S meant Solnyshko - Sunny. Not "счастье", "сокровище" or "Sweetie pie". She has written it in a full version several times.

Thanks. This makes sense for she loved to say "golden" about a loved one

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Rodney_G.

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 840
  • an angel .....and the best of them
    • View Profile
Re: Nicknames of IF's friends, servants, household, retainers, etc.
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2014, 05:37:14 PM »
Now I can say with certainty that Olga's S meant Solnyshko - Sunny. Not "счастье", "сокровище" or "Sweetie pie". She has written it in a full version several times.

Good to know that , Antonina. Often the simplest explanation proves true.
Rodney G.