Grand Duchess Elizaveta - discussion and pictures PART I

Really why ? 

Because I've read why Greg King thinks it's still Alix, and he's got good reasoning. Although if it is proven to be a mistake, I can't really blame him. They look very similar.

I have an old print that was published at the time and it is labelled Ella. It's not that mistakes weren't made during their actual lifetimes but looking at the actual print, I can't really doubt that it's Ella and not Alix.

As Helen stated in the other thread:

"I just confirmed with someone that this portrait is definitely Ella and not Alix. It is a  study by Kaulbach. Evidently, there is a detail of this portrait (head and shoulders in pastel) at the Schloss in Darmstadt.  So yes, wrong portrait in the book!"

Admittedly this is a bit of an old discussion, and I can't find the other thread as well, but I got this message from Greg King last night, who did want to finally put the question to rest.

From Greg:"I was just looking at a catalogue inventory of the Schloss Museum in Darmstadt and there it was reproduced.  It is most definitely Alix-it was painted by Hermann Kaulbach in 1896, is an oil on canvas, and the original hangs in the Altes Schloss in Darmstadt now.  As I explained before, it was marked as Alix in Russian on the back.  So know at least we know."

Yes...But the painting is so similiar to one painted of Ella. That is where I found problemetic. Perhaps it was mis-labeled ?

Greg is of the opinion that the Hesse Darmstadt archives would know for certain as they have the full records of who Kaulbach painted and when, etc. 

The painting which has been done in the postcard is always labelled as Ella. I think there must be some mistake. The last time I went to the Darmstadt archiev, they mislabelled a photograph of Charlotte (Saxe-Meingegen) as Sophie (Queen of Greece). I told them the error and they corrected it...

The painting is showing Grand Duchess Elizaveta. I have worked for several years in that very museum and I know every single piece.
The pastel you mean was done in 1892 in Jugenheim - it was the paragon for the large canvas. The museum also preserves a lithography of latter - signed and dated in the Grand Duchess's own hand. This is the last proof for those who do not recognize them by looking at the face...

[Page 66, Fuhrer durch das Darmstadter Schlossmuseum, Darmstadt, 1980, byVolker Illgen, which says"Zarin Alexandra von Russland (Schwester des Grossherzogs Ernst Ludwig),Olkreide, Hermann Kaulbauch, zu S. 16"]

The painting is showing Grand Duchess Elizaveta. I have worked for several years in that very museum and I know every single piece.
The pastel you mean was done in 1892 in Jugenheim - it was the paragon for the large canvas. The museum also preserves a lithography of latter - signed and dated in the Grand Duchess's own hand. This is the last proof for those who do not recognize them by looking at the face...

Greg responds with:
my information comes from:

Page 66, Fuhrer durch das Darmstadter Schlossmuseum, Darmstadt, 1980, by
Volker Illgen, which says

"Zarin Alexandra von Russland (Schwester des Grossherzogs Ernst Ludwig),
Olkreide, Hermann Kaulbauch, zu S. 16"

I know what the museum said. I have been to the museum and saw the painting myself . I still think it is inconclusive. Maybe a comparison with the print will be more helpful. The date of the painting and record of it with the info from Ella & Alicky's schedule dates. I think the painting was painted after Ella was married to Serge.

[Page 66, Fuhrer durch das Darmstadter Schlossmuseum, Darmstadt, 1980, byVolker Illgen, which says"Zarin Alexandra von Russland (Schwester des Grossherzogs Ernst Ludwig),Olkreide, Hermann Kaulbauch, zu S. 16"]

The painting is showing Grand Duchess Elizaveta. I have worked for several years in that very museum and I know every single piece.
The pastel you mean was done in 1892 in Jugenheim - it was the paragon for the large canvas. The museum also preserves a lithography of latter - signed and dated in the Grand Duchess's own hand. This is the last proof for those who do not recognize them by looking at the face...

Greg responds with:
my information comes from:

Page 66, Fuhrer durch das Darmstadter Schlossmuseum, Darmstadt, 1980, by


Volker Illgen, which says

"Zarin Alexandra von Russland (Schwester des Grossherzogs Ernst Ludwig),
Olkreide, Hermann Kaulbauch, zu S. 16"

This is a quote from the 30 year old guide booklet - there are several wrong information in it including the mixing up of the sisters. The portrait of Princess Alix is quite different showing her in a white dress and wearing a large hat. Dr. Illgen was not correct. The Grand Duchess's signature should be prove enough. Greg King should have done better researches on his book and should have seen it himself. Princess Alix was 20 when the portraits were done and not a woman of almost 30 like her sister. Even the dress and jewels indicate - by the way - Elizaveta's tastes.

Yes...I think they were confusing Alicky's portrait with the large hat with the one with the tiara of Ella. I believe you got that right.

Of course, Thomas and Eric, you must be correct. SHAME I say, SHAME on Greg King for the utter temerity, stupidity and thoughtlessly negligent shoddy research he did by relying on the catalogue of the Museum of Hesse Darmstadt and the work of the Museum officials. OF COURSE he should have never trusted that they might know and he CERTAINLY should have delved completely into proving that the Museum staff who had access to the family archives was mistaken in their attribution.  I'll make certain to speak to him about this...There is a painting in the Metropolitan Museum of Art I've had a question about, I should ring up Philippe de Montebello and speak with him...

I don't think there is any shame of being wrong. The Catholic Church was dead wrong about the solar system and Gailieo was right. Who won the day ? The Chuch. Who was proven right in the end ? Gailieo. It could be only an error of the person who catalogued it from the museum from over 30 years ! Paintings and art are continued being reaccessed. I do not see a problem in that.

In the recent exhibition on Russia's art and culture under the last Tsar's reign they had a wonderful Kaulbach on display - labelled Empress Alexandra. It was actually Grand Duchess Elizaveta. What can one do if people do not recognize their own RELATIONS?! Simply not believing all and everything - even if it comes from experts.
I mean I have not written a book on either Elisabeth or Alexandra and am nontheless able to divide them.
The voice of your comment, Forum Administrator, is most unnecessary

I think one must keep an open mind in history and art. The more we think we know actually the more we don't. Most believe the Bolsheviks would have destroyed all the things that the Tsars had left behind. But instead we are pleasently surpirsed that quite an amount are still available for our enjoyment now.

I wonder how many portraits did Ella actually sat for ?