Author Topic: Ella and her Siblings  (Read 60674 times)

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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Ella and her Siblings
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2006, 05:48:41 PM »
Interesting.. I had not thought of that. I think they were different personalities, and maybe I can see that Ella's uncoventional life, although very good, might not have been understood by Alexandra, as it was not by some people.This is understandable, etc. Alexandra and Ella might have drifted apart earlier, but I always thought that the Rasputin thing was the big break, after which they never got along, and that was unfortunate. But, it might have been the symptom, not the cause, that's an interesting theory.

Offline lori_c

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Re: Ella and her Siblings
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2006, 08:58:25 AM »
I had always thought it was after the birth of Alexei.  This wasn't too long before the death of Sergei.  This  all coincided w/Ella's drift toward a more spiritual life leaving society behind and her subsequent taking of Holy Orders.  Then enter Rasputin. 

The more insular Alexandra felt she had to become because of the illness of Alexei and Rasputin's presence, the more they drifted apart. (Though, to be fair, Ella was always concerned about her sister and she shared a good relationship w/the Tsar.)  I feel though that the extreme stress that Alix was under caused her to feel that even her own sister was siding with her "Moscow clique" against her.  Even though Ella's concern was for the family's position, Alix didn't see it that way and the sisters never saw each other again after Ella went in 1916  and "was shown the door".

I agree that they were different personalities but that Ella probably made every effort to understand her sister.  Especially since she was partly responsible for bringing her to Russia in the first place.  But they were alike in the respect that when they set their mind, it couldn't be changed.

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Ella and her Siblings
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2006, 10:43:18 AM »
Yes, I am sure that Ella did make every effort to understand her sister, yes. Ella was understanding, but Alexandra could be more set in her ways than Ella and hard to understand. Alexandra was under much stress then, and you are right, she would not listen. She would especially not listen about Rasputin, etc. Ella's concern was correct, and I am sure she made every effort to be tactful, but she obviously felt something needed to be done.

Offline lori_c

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Re: Ella and her Siblings
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2006, 11:14:08 AM »
Yes. I agree.  Alexandra was more stubborn and wasn't always as maybe tactful as Ella.  Alexandra could be much more blunt.  If she didn't like you, you would be sure to know. 

Ella, i feel always had a modicum of forgiveness and mercy towards people.  Even before she became a nun.  And, she never held it against Alix that they had a disagreement - but Alix did.  Ella tried to telegram them after they were put under house arrest in the AP but it was returned.  Not by the captors either.

Ella never gave up though, sending chocolate and coffee to the family in Ekaterinburg.  From Alix's diaries, I think she realized that by that time any fighting or bad feelings should be forgotten even though the sisters never got to correspond after their "disagreement".

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Ella and her Siblings
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2006, 11:42:19 AM »
It is interesting that even under house arrest in the AP, that she still would not have anything to do with Ella. It was not just a disagreement, but rather in the category of a rather deep estrangement, and Alexandra was a good person, but could be unforgiving. Her sister had had the best intentions, and she always had. Adversity never brought them together, although maybe it did in spirit, as you say. It would be interesting to know- Ella would have been there had Alexandra chosen to forgive.

Offline lori_c

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Re: Ella and her Siblings
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2006, 12:42:19 PM »
Alix definitely held a grudge.  Several.   She was a good person though in my opinion.  Just somebody under tremendous pressure and facing extreme adversity within a family that should have been more supportive.  It's unfortunate that She looked at Ella as just one more family member turning against her.  She was also fiercely protective of Rasputin.  So any mention of him definitely would not have just been any old disagreement.  It as you said was a fracture of their relationship.

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Ella and her Siblings
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2006, 08:48:32 AM »
Yes, their relationship was defintely over in this argument.  It is very sad, because they really had much in common, and much to offer one another when they understood each other. But, Alexandra often behaved like this with people, perhaps not realizing that it's more important to be connected with people, even though it is easy to disagree, indeed. She was under pressure, and any attempt to understand her must include this.

Offline Eddie_uk

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Re: Ella and her Siblings
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2007, 12:32:32 PM »
Vicky had good sense and saw Alicky was ambitious and proud even before she was married to Nicholas (that proved to be the case). I think she got along with the sensible ones (VMH & Irene) better than the pretty ones (Ella & Alicky). I also believe that her dislike of Ella was one of the reasons that prevented Willy to propose to Ella (She still have some influence with him at that period). So I found the lack of closeness between Sophie & Alicky understanable (although both went through the change in religion).  ???

How do we know Vicky disliked Ella and Alicky? I know she preferred the looks of Toria and Maud but thats not to say she disliked Ella and Alicky.

Alicky does not strike me as particularly ambitious either. Nicky spent years woeing her. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think she became proud until she became Empress. Before that she strikes me as reserved and shy in character.
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Offline lori_c

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Re: Ella and her Siblings
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2007, 12:35:53 PM »
Dislike might be a little strong.  It is known she preferred her Edinburg/Coburg nieces over her Hessian ones.  But she dearly loved her sister Alice and took an interest in her children especially after Alice's death.  But as in all big families, there are always favoritism.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Ella and her Siblings
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2007, 09:53:58 PM »
I do not think that Vicky like Alicky much. She had accurately predicted that she would be politically ambitious once she became empress. Also she felt that her niece was cold and proud and not very endearing. Vicky prefered the naturalness of her Wales and Edinburgh nieces much more, although I don't think she had any problems with VMH or Irene.  ;)

Offline Eddie_uk

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Re: Ella and her Siblings
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2007, 12:09:52 PM »
Well what about Ella Eric? Why do you think Vicky disliked her?? :)
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Offline lori_c

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Re: Ella and her Siblings
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2007, 12:36:48 PM »
Vicky did definitely NOT have too nice of things to say about Ella (and Alix).  It seems those two sisters in particular.  Although, she was extremely against Irene marrying her son.  I think it was because it took place behind her back???? somebody help me with this ???

Offline Eddie_uk

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Re: Ella and her Siblings
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2007, 02:00:44 PM »
Hmm, we need some reliability here, far to many ungrounded accusations.  ???

Vicky was very fond of the sensible Irene and I don't believe she was against Irene marrying Henry. Far from it, correct me if I am wrong, but I think Vicky believed Irene would be a stabilising influence on Henry, which she was. Irene brought Henry and Vicky closer. Prior to this Henry, together with his brother Wilhelm and sister Charlotte, formed an alliance agaisnt his parents' policy and opinions.

What EXACTLY did Vicky say about Ella which leads us to believe she disliked her??

:)
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Offline lori_c

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Re: Ella and her Siblings
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2007, 02:22:25 PM »
You are absolutely correct.  I looked up in Charlotte Zeepvat's Queen Victoriia's descendants and it was QUEEN VICTORIA who was against it because it took place without her knowlege.

Thanks for correcting me. ;)

Offline Eddie_uk

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Re: Ella and her Siblings
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2007, 02:29:48 PM »
Your welcome :)

Yes you are right it was QV, she wrote to VMH that Irene went behind her back and broke her promise. David Duff write about it in Hessian Tapestry.  :)
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