Author Topic: Stuart Bastards  (Read 25456 times)

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Offline Prince_Christopher

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Stuart Bastards
« on: May 30, 2005, 08:19:23 PM »
Can anyone provide me with an accurate list of the illegitimate children of James V (the father of Mary Queen of Scots).
I know he had several, by various mothers, but I've never seen a complete list, just certain ones mentioned  in different books.
I am most interested in his illegitimate daughters and who they married.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2009, 01:17:11 PM by Prince_Lieven »
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Illegitimate Children of James V
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2005, 03:31:43 AM »
1 John Prior of Coldingham.
2 james Earl of Moray and Mar
3 Robert Earl of Orkney and Prior of Holyrood
4 James Stewart Abbot of Melrose and Kelso
5 James Stewart
6 Adam Prior of the Charterhouse
7 Jean (married Archibald Campbell 5th Earl of Argyll)
8 Robert Prior of Whithorn
9 Margaret
All by different women too,he was quite busy  :o
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Offline umigon

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Re: Illegitimate Children of James V
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2005, 05:32:00 AM »
Hi!

Here’s my list:

By Margaret Erskine (+1572):

1.      James Stewart (1531-murdered 21/1/1569). Earl of Moray and Regent of Scotland, he married Agnes Keith (1546-1588) the 10th February 1561.

By an Elizabeth Shaw:

2.      James Stewart (cir 1528-1558). Abbot of Kelso and Melrose.

By Helen/Elizabeth Stewart of Lennox (died before 25/11/1564):

3.      Adam (circa 1532-1606). Married Janet Ruthven.

By Eupheme Elphinstone:

4.      Robert Stewart (1533-4/2/1592). Earl of Orkney. Married Jean Kennedy.

By Elizabeth Catherine Carmichael:

5.      John Stewart (born before 1531-1563). Prior of Coldinghame. Married Jean Hepburn.

By Elizabeth Bethune:

6.      Jean. She married Archibald Campbell, earl of Argyll. This marriage would be annulled.

Then there were Margaret, another James and another Robert, Prior of Whithorn, of whom I have no more information than their names.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by umigon »
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Offline ilyala

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Re: Illegitimate Children of James V
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2005, 11:01:44 AM »
busy man indeed ;)

i wonder what mary thought of it? :D
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ilya


Offline Prince_Christopher

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Re: Illegitimate Children of James V
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2005, 10:01:58 PM »
I believe they were both a source of hindrance and help to Mary during her reign.
Anyone who has a library and a garden wants for nothing.
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Offline umigon

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Re: Illegitimate Children of James V
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2005, 06:10:11 AM »


In fact they were not!!

I don't really know what was her relationship with all of them, but I know that both the Earl of Orkney and, specially, the Earl of Moray, betrayed Mary.

Moray was not very fond of Mary because he was absolutely jealous of her. He hated her because even though she was a woman and quite a few years younger than him, she was the only legitimate child of their father and, therefore, the only heir to the throne.

When Mary came to Scotland in 1561 Moray seemed to be very interested in guiding his young widowed half-sister in her duty. The country had changed dramatically since the times of James V, and John Knox and his Calvinism were growing in Scotland. To make things even worse, Knox hated Mary and her Catholic upbringing.

Moray, a Calvinist, saw his occasion to seize power after Lord Darnley's murder and he did what was in his hand to depose Mary. When this was achieved, he ended up becoming the Regent of Scotland under his nephew James VI's minority. He would be murdered in 1569 by another protestant party.

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Offline ChristineM

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Re: Illegitimate Children of James V
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2005, 07:03:56 AM »
Umigon - I have to note that I am quite overwhelmed by your knowledge on this subject all the more so because of your age and your English which is superb.

May I ask, what made a young man in Spain so interested and knowledgeable about the history of the Scottish Queen, Marie Stuart?

tsaria

Offline umigon

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Re: Illegitimate Children of James V
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2005, 09:25:12 AM »


Thank you very much for those nice words tsaria!!


My first contact with History was, in fact, with the History of England. I have studied in a bilingual school (Spanish-English) since I was two and my first History class was in English, and about British History.

Our teacher, who was a distinguished young Scottish woman, taught us firstly about Romans, Queen Boudicca, Beowulf, Anglo-Saxons, etc. It interested me quite a lot, but it wasn't until the next year, when we studied Henry VIII, that I "fell madly in love" (lets say it that way! ;)) with History. Henry VIII, his wives, his children... Then came Mary Stuart, of whom my teacher was a sort of fan, and that's how it came to interest me!

Thanks again for your words! This is a wonderful site, so I'll be around!


Gon.
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Offline ilyala

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Re: Illegitimate Children of James V
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2005, 10:54:46 AM »
i was actually asking about mary of guise, james 5th's wife... what her opinion on the matter of her husband's flock of illegitimate children was :)
'loving might be a mistake, but it's worth making'
ilya


Offline umigon

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Re: Illegitimate Children of James V
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2005, 01:58:27 PM »


Well, sorry, I suppose we all got confused. In my case I really didn't think about Marie de Guise, that wasn't very nice, poor Marie!

Well, I don't know much about it, but I think that Marie didn't care TOO much. And I say it because it is known that young Queen Mary Stuart played when she was an infant with her older half-brother, the Earl of Moray, and that they were quite fond of each other, although Moray would afterwards betray her.

So, having that Mary lived with her mother and her father's bastard in the same house and that her father was dead (so it couldn't be a forced cohabitation as it was for James IV's or Henry IV of France's children). I guess (again I'm guessing ;)) that Marie just didn't care too much if they didn't give many trouble. Maybe she did it to attract them to her daughter's cause...

Could be?
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Offline ChristineM

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Re: Illegitimate Children of James V
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2005, 04:16:32 PM »
Your Scottish history teacher would be delighted if she knew the impression she left on you umigon.

Mary of Guise was widowed when her daughter, at not yet a week old, became the Queen of Scotland.   She certainly had plenty to occupy her mind.

tsaria

Offline Prince_Christopher

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Re: Illegitimate Children of James V
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2005, 08:45:58 PM »
Umigon, I agree with you. Look up the word "hindrance".  However, did not one of Mary's half-sisters travel with her to the court of France? Or was it an aunt, her father's illegitimate sister?
Anyone who has a library and a garden wants for nothing.
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Offline umigon

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Re: Illegitimate Children of James V
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2005, 06:34:56 AM »
Sorry for being late in my response, but I am doing my final exams so I have been quite busy!

Well, Miss Quinn was quite delighted with me at the time and, as I have seen her lately, in some parties at my old school, I can say that she was very happy to see me again and to discover that I was still interested in her beloved Mary Stuart and all history in general!

Sorry, Prince Christopher, I hadn't seen 'hindrance'! I suppose I read quicker than I should.
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Stuart Bastards
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2005, 04:45:01 PM »
Now let's discuss the other illegitimate children of the Stuart monarchs!

Bastards of Charles II
By Margaret de Carteret
-James de Carteret (1646-1667). Charles was 16 when he was born!  ShockedWe were talking about Mary II being sexually active at about 15, well her uncle certainly was!
 
By Lucy Walter
-James Scott, Duke of Monmouth (1649-1685). He always claimed that his parents were married, but never produced any evidence.Married Anne Scott, heiress of the dukes of Buccleuch and had issue, who I will list later.
 
-Mary Stuart (1658-1693). It is possible Charles was not her father.
 
By Elizabeth Killigrew, Viscountess Shannon
-Charlotte Jemima Henrietta Maria FitzRoy (1650-1684). She married William Paston, Earl of Yarmouth, and had isuue I will list later. I bet the pious Queen Henrietta Maria loved the fact that this bastard had her names!
 
By Catherine Pegge
-Charles FitzCharles, 1st Earl of Plymouth (1657-1680). He married Lady Briget Osborne.
 
-Catherine FitzCharles (1658-1759).She was a nun and lived to be 101!!!!
 
By  Barbara Villiers, Duchess of Cleveland
-Charles Fitzroy, 1st Duke of Southampton (1662-1730). He married Anne Poultney and had issue, to be listed later.
 
-Sir Henry Fitzroy, 1st Duke of Grafton (1663-1690). He married Lady Isabella Bennet, Countess of Arlington and has issue.
 
-Lady Charlotte Fitzroy (1664-171Cool. She married Edward Lee, Earl of Lichfield and had children.
 
-George Fitzroy, 1st Duke of Northumberland (1665-1716).  He married Mary Dutton.
 
By Eleanor ('Nell') Gywn
-Charles Beauclerk, 1st Duke of St. Albans (1760-1726). He married Lady Diana de Vere and had issue.
 
-James Beauclerk, Lord Beauclerk (1671-1680).
 
By Louise Renée de Penancoët de Kérouaille, Duchess of Portsmouth
-Charles Lennox, 1st Duke of Richmond (1672-1723). He married Anne Budenell and had issue.
 
By Moll Davies
-Mary Tudor (1673-1726). She married Edward Ratcliffe,  Earl of D-e-r-w-e-n-t-w-a-t-e-r and had issue.  

Bastards of James II
 -with Arabella Churchill
1. Lady Henrietta Fitzjames (1667-1730). She married Henry Waldergrave, Baron Waldergrave of Chewton.
 
2. James Fitzjames, Duke of Berwick (1670-1734). He married  firstly Lady Honora Burke and second Lady Anne Bulkeley.
 
3. Henry Fitzjames, Duke of Albermarle (1673-1702). He married Marie Gabrielle d'Audibert.
 
4. Lady Arabella Fitzjames (1674-1704). She was a nun with the name of Ignatia.
 
-with Katherine Sedley, Countess of Dorchester
1. Lady Catherine Darnley (1681-1743). She married firstly James Annelessy, Earl of Anglesea and secondly John Sheffield, Duke of Buckingham.
 
2. James Darnley (1684-85)
 
-unknown mother
1. Charles Darnley (died very young).

I will post more lists tomorrow!
« Last Edit: April 18, 2009, 01:18:48 PM by Prince_Lieven »
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Offline ChristineM

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Re: Stuart Bastards
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2005, 05:26:43 PM »
When I read the title of this thread, I was somewhat startled.   I thought 'Am I neglecting my duties as a moderator here?'  

Then, when I realised it had been opened by my co-moderator, that the subject for discussion was indeed illigitimacy and that my co-moderator is now the same age as Charles II was when he first became a father, I realised, we are is safe hands.

tsaria