Author Topic: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant  (Read 58849 times)

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Offline AGRBear

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Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« on: June 01, 2005, 11:37:00 AM »
One of the Tatiana Claimants was Larissa Fedorovna.  

The book THE ROMANOV CONSPIRACIES by Michael Occleshaw talks a great deal about Larissa Fedorovna and her claim to be GD Tatiana.

AGRBear
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Offline AGRBear

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2005, 11:37:16 AM »
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Because of my thread about what Anastasia would have inherited,  I was asked to read THE LOST FORTUNE OF THE TSARS by William Clarke.  Last night,  while looking for something about Tsarina Alexandra's property in Hesse I can across this story about another rescue I don't recall reading in any other book.  I do recall something about the guards at the Impatiev House getting excited about an airplane flying over......  Let's call it

 A Rescue By Aeroplane

On pps 85-86:

There is mention of  Col. Richard Meinertzhagen, who had been in the Foreign Office and in the British Intelligence and who had a diary.  In this diary he wrote about a "plot to rescue the whole family and the apparent rescue of at least one of the grand duchesses by aeroplane"

Yep,  that is what it said:  "the apparent rescue of at least one of the grand duchesses by aeroplane".

The book then gives Meinertzhagen's entry of 18 Aug 1918 which describes the rescue of one of Nicholas II's daughters and his visit with George V at Buckingham Palace.

p. 86:

"July 1... One child was literally thrown into the plane at Ekaterinburg, much bruised, and brought to Braitain where she still is.  But I am sure if her idenity were known she would be tracked down and murdered as the heir of the Russian throne.  What bestial swine the Russians are, murdering little girls becuse they are the daughters of the Tsar."

Could this be true?

July 1 doesn't seem right.  Not when we read the diares of the Impatiev House....  

Did it occur on July 16 and  not July 1..... ?  Now, this would give us a great deal of thought,  wouldn't it?

People have tried to show that Meinertzhagenmight have "some tendency to fantasise" and people crowd around that thought, or so it seems.

A Michael Occleshaw folllowed up on this story and thought the GD rescue may have been GD Tatiana and that was was indeen flown out of Ekaterinburg to Vladivostock by stages then taken by boat to England.  In fact,  he thought she might be buried ina grave in Lydd in Kent".  

You read  the few pages and you can gain your own opinion about this  "rescue".

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2005, 11:37:37 AM »
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The "Tatiana" in Kent, Larissa Feodorovna died in 1926. She was married to Owen Tudor. She never claimed anything and the couple lived an almost mysterious life avoiding contact with most people. There is no known photo of her. The story is told in detail in "The Romanov conspiracies" by Michael Occleshaw who also tells the story about Richard Meinertzhagen who claimed in his diary to have saved one of the girls in Ekaterinburg. Interesting and fascinating! Larissa´s grave can still be seen in Lydd in England. Every 10 of June Owen Tudor visited her grave. This was Grand Duchess Tatiana´s birthday according to Occleshaw.


Quote
At the risk of going round an old loop for members I'm afraid Occleshaw's book does not bear serious examination.  A few points:

1/  Occleshaw has "Tatiana" flown out of Ekaterinberg by the British.  He doesn't explain how any aircraft got there or how it managed to then fly her to Vladivostok.  I have spoken at some length on this subject with the former editor of "Cross & Cockade International" and we are agreed there was no aircraft at the time could have feasibly done this.

2/ Occleshaw claims that records of the RAF contingent in North Russia 1918 (where he assumes the aircraft came from) are not released into the National Archive AIR1 papers and claims to have information they never will be.  He is correct in this - because they are in the AIR2 series and I have copies of them in my drawer.  Curiously they make no reference to a rescue mission.

3/ Occleshaw claims that Richard Meinertzhagen was working for a War Office section dealing with Intelligence on Russia - not according to the contemporary War Office List he wasn't.

4/ Occleshaw claims that a mysterious Miss Marguerite Lindsay who entered UK on 8 August 1918 on the same ship as Mrs Meinertzhagen was "Tatiana" as there is no record of her ever existing.  Those interested can trace her previous trans-atlantic journeys by looking her up on the Ellis Island web-site.  She seems to have travelled frequently prior to 1918.

5/ Occleshaw neglects to mention, in his excitement at finding Miss Lindsay arriving on the same ship as Mrs Meinertzhagen, that Richard meinertzhagen and his wife loathed each other like poison and their marriage was likely never consumated.  Mrs M is hardly the person he'd trust on a delicate mission.

Just a few of the fairly serious objections to Occleshaw's book which older members may have seen before.

Phil Tomaselli
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2005, 07:44:48 PM »
Really interesting! We have already "three Tatianas" . The only thing I don't understand is why they said that bolsheviks killed "little girls"...If this claimant was Tatiana or was pretending to be her, she will be no more a "little girl". She would have been 21!  ::) It's like Goleniewsky's case, but inversed! He was born in 1922, so it was impossible that he could have been who he claimed to be!  ;D

 Of course...no photo taken from her, so we can't even know if she was somewhat similar to Tatiana in her facial shapes. Of course too, she never claimed to be Tatiana, and had mysterious stories surrounding her.

 In this case, I think that the whole case may have been a fantasie of Meinertzhagen. I said MAY for we never know for sure, but at least, it seems to be.

RealAnastasia.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2005, 09:08:22 AM »
There is a photo of someone who might be Larissa who is standing behind several women but it's not enough to show us what she looked like....

Here is a photo of Larissa's grave.



I wasn't convinced Larissa was GD Tatiana after I finished reading Michael Occleshaw's book THE ROMANOV CONSPIRACIES.  However, I did find some interesting information.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Laura Mabee

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2005, 09:47:03 AM »
I believe there was a picture taken with "her" in the background, however, she only appears as really a shadowy figure, thus really only an outline of her overall.

Offline Lanie

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2005, 03:58:11 PM »
Well, IMO, Tatiana is the missing daughter...not Anastasia or Maria...but then again, why is everyone so obsessed with claimants?  THey were all murdered in July 1918... I think all these claimants and people who support them are disrespectful to the memory of the Imperial Family, especially the poor children...

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2005, 04:34:58 PM »
It matters not if we like the idea of claimants, they existed and pretending they don't exist isn't going to change the fact that they made their claims.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Lanie

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2005, 05:35:42 PM »
I think I can try to get a hold of that one photo of "Larissa Feodorovna"... it's posted in some Yahoo! Group I used to frequent.  At least these claimants are all rather amusing.  Isn't this "Tatiana" supposed to have been a belly dancer/prostitute in Turkey before going to England?  ::)

Offline Lanie

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2005, 05:42:23 PM »
"Tatiana" is in the back, barely visible.  I circled her face.  From what we can see she does look like Tatiana, it reminds me of those 1914 portraits with her hair bobbed.


Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2005, 07:04:16 PM »
Hi, guys:

                 Well: I'm very interested in claimants, and this forum was open to speak about claimants. People who is not intereted in this subject, simply don't answer the threads started in this forum. You believe all Romanov died in this awful cellar in 1918. All right. You may think this. Of course, all people here may think as they wants to.

                    I believe that someone survived , most likely Anastasia, but perhaps she didn't live after all, and another sister did...I don't know. Simply for that, I didn't enter in threads were all people is so convinced of nobody of the IF survived. And I'm my right to think as I want too. And no (I repeat) I'm not a fairy-tale believer for it!  >:(

                     However, Lanie, I must thank you for the "Tatiana" photo, and I agree with you: this woman does looks like Tatiana.

                        FOR AGRBEAR: Thank you for the excellent photo of the gravesite. There is nothing wrote there, where you may   notice that she was a claimant. Perhaps some people wanted to won notoriety through her "case"?



RealAnastasia.

Offline lexi4

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2005, 07:16:33 PM »
Interesting. It seems the grave marker says she was 28 when she died. That is so young and  so sad. Does anyone know the cause of death???
Correct me if I am wrong, but it doesn't seem she ever claimed to be GD Tatiana, but that others made the claim. Is that correct? If so, then she was techincially never a claimant, right?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by lexi4 »
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline Lanie

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2005, 07:28:19 PM »
I think, though I'm not sure, she had tuberculosis or something?  I don't know much about her, really, though I find her and the other claimants who we know next to nothing about fairly interesting--like Larissa Feodorovna, Marga Boodts, etc.

Offline lexi4

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2005, 07:53:46 PM »
Those are the ones I find interesting also, Lanie. I did an internet search for Larissa and her husband and found nothing. I'd like to read more. I always thought that if any one really did escape that horrow, they would live the rest of their lives out quietly and without fanfare. That always made more sense to me than the circus AA created. What do you think?
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline Shvibzik

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2005, 08:10:22 PM »
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...I always thought that if any one really did escape that horrow, they would live the rest of their lives out quietly and without fanfare. That always made more sense to me than the circus AA created. What do you think?


I agree with you, Lexi.  If I were someone who escaped (which I don't believe), I would be afraid to stake my claim.  You could still be killed. :-/