Author Topic: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant  (Read 58848 times)

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Offline stepan

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2005, 06:06:38 PM »
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I just ploughed through this book after ordering it from England (American here) on E-bay.

It is incredibly frustrating trying to pin Occleshaw down to anything. I was under the impression that he seriously presents the woman in the photo as Tatiana, but the whole book is a mishmash presentation of "what ifs?" and "this MIGHT have been what happened!"

I'm not sorry I ordered it --- I will read books dealing with the Imperial Family with the same fine discrimination a slot machine in Vegas has for coins --- but it was a poorly conceived book, and did nothing to answer any of the questions it "raised". I say "raised" because in the end the questions were silly. There have been hundreds of women since 1918 that resembled each of the imperial quartet. I don't see the validity of pointing to one or the other without at least offering some proof as to her real identity.

I don´t agree with your judgment.I think it was a very good book and the part about the mysterious Larissa Feodorovna interesting. So there you see how opinions can differ!   It´s a pity Occleshaw hasen´t published anything more since.  As far as I know he is a serious historian. He also wrote a book about espionage in the World War 1.

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2005, 09:18:59 PM »
Yes...But the girl in the photo could be me, you or anyone else... ::)

RealAnastasia.

P.S: I noticed that I'm picking the same way of posting that Etonexile: ... ::)... ::).  ;D

Offline LegalEagle2

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2005, 07:11:55 PM »
I also agree that Michael Occleshaw's book is very interesting. I met him after reading 'The Romanov Conspiracies' and he showed me the grave of Larissa Feodorovna in Lydd, Kent and the house where she and her husband used to live.

We were accompanied by students from a local college, who were making a documentary about 'Larissa's story' and they interviewed Michael and some of the people who live in Lydd and were familar with the story. It would be facinating to see that documentary.

Neither Larissa nor her husband, Owen Tudor, ever claimed that Larissa was Tatiana. In fact he went to great lengths to destroy any evidence of her identity before he died.

The official version of events is that they met when Larissa was in Turkey working as a dancer. They fell in love and married against the orders of the Colonel of Owen Tudor's Regiment, and he had to leave that Regiment in disgrace.

After their marriage they hid away in Lydd, a desolate part of Kent, where the Army Regiment that Owen Tudor joined was based. They lived in a very modest house overlooking a green. When I saw it I commented to Michael that it is the last place you would expect a Russian Grand Duchess to live. Perhaps that was the intention. I read in one of the many Romanov books that someone had once said that even if all the family had not died, it was necessary to say they all died in order to protect any survivors from Bolshevik assassins who might search them out.

Michael has continued his research and I hope he will write another book as he mentioned many additional points to me which are not covered by this book.

He is a serious historian, and he stumbled across a reference to one of the Tsar's daughters being rescued whilst researching 'Armour against Fate - British Military Intelligence in the First World War'. He was then contacted by two ladies who read his book and they told him about the 'Larissa' grave and their research into her background and that of Owen Tudor.

I don't think you can criticise him for not reaching any conclusions in his book. One of the facinations is that there are so many questions about the fate of the Romanovs which have not been answered, and which are unlikely to be answered unless official records are made available, or personal diaries are found which reference the Romanovs.

My personal preference is for authors to set out the facts that have been uncovered, and their source, and let the readers make up their own minds.

Alixz

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2005, 10:11:41 PM »
For more information on claimants try:

The Hunt for the Czar  by Guy Richards.  

It was first published in 1970 and at the time was thought to be a good source for "proof" that the entire IM had survived.

There are several claimants mentioned and, of course, an interview with Goleniewski (claimed to be Alexis).

This book is interesting reading and in 1970 all of the facts we have now were far in the future.

I read it with fascination because of the mention an agent who was descended from an American Revolutionary soldier whose name was Van Rensselaer.  I have one of those in my family tree.  The revolutionary war soldier, not the agent.

Along with the mention of the claimants is the "diary" of the man (agent) who was supposed to have rescued the entire Imperial Family.  He claims to have had a "flirtation" with GD Tatiana.

As an interesting read, I recommned it.  As history - well that's up to the reader.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Alixz »

Offline stepan

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2005, 04:57:44 PM »
 I may add a curious detail  about Larissa Feodorovna´s grave. According to Sue Edwards  book  "No resting place for a Romanov" someone came to Larissa´s grave in 1998, removed the rails around the grave,cleaned the headstone and put a new stoneframe surrounding the grave. The Tudor family when asked denied all knowledge about it. Noone seems to know anyhing about it. The author wonders whether perhaps the Russian embassy was involved. It would be interesting to know more about this.

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2005, 07:45:47 PM »
I didn't really know that this case was so interesting. I'm wanting to read the Occleshaw book ! Even if Larissa was not true (maybe we'll never know it) it's interesting to know all claimants stories, for they existed and are actually part of the Romanov saga and final chapter. I don't know who among all pretenders were "the real thing" or if there were any survivor after the cellar massacre, but as I said before, those stories are now part of the Romanov's one.

RealAnastasia.

Offline Rachael89

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2005, 06:49:05 AM »
Whoever poor Larissa was I feel sorry for her to die so long, but at least she had a husband who loved her dearly as her husband did. I find it touching that he would always leave flowers on her grave every 10 th of June on Larissa's birthday, he continued to do this untill his death.

I don't take Occleshaws claim seriously after reading his book because there is little or no explanation of how Tatiana got onto a plane whilst in captivity. His theory is based almost entirely on assumptions.

Her case is fascinating though and I beleive it warrants further investigation. Especially considering the way they tried to say out of the public eye and the fact that Larissa never made a claim to be anyone.

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Rachael
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Offline Inquiring_Mind

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2005, 02:08:32 PM »
I have been trying to order Sue Edwards "No resting Place for a Romanov" for over 2 years. Everytime I locate a copy the bookseller later contacts me and says it is unavailable.
I chose the road less traveled and now...where the heck am I????

Offline Lupi

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2005, 03:56:42 PM »
Have you tried your local library?  Mine has two copies, but they are for reference only, although they are trying to find one that I can take on loan.

Does anyone know whether Michael Occleshaw has found any further information since the publishing of his book in 1993?

I work for the local authority that covers Lydd and the cemetery where Larissa is buried and am writing an article on her for our council magazine, so some new information would be great, if indeed there is anything new!!

I live in hope, but I suspect that I may be disappointed.  :-/
Come little Rogue and on my belly lie.  A little lower, yet, now dearest try.

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2005, 07:40:03 PM »
That sound interesting, Lupi. I would like to know something new in thet Tudor 's case.

RealAnastasia.

Offline Lupi

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2005, 07:08:53 AM »
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I have been trying to order Sue Edwards "No resting Place for a Romanov" for over 2 years. Everytime I locate a copy the bookseller later contacts me and says it is unavailable.


Try this man!  He has just emailed me to say that he has some being delivered tomorrow.

Patrick Smyth
Subpostmaster
Horsmonden Post Office
HORSMONDEN
Kent
TN128HT

email: carrypax@care4free.net


Come little Rogue and on my belly lie.  A little lower, yet, now dearest try.

Offline Lordtranwell

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2006, 10:14:06 AM »
Hi,
Some very good points have been made about Michael Occleshaw's book and especially the one about Meinertzagen and Amorel hating the sight of each other.  I tend not to agree that her usefulness is compromised by this sourness though.  I found Sue Edwards' 'No hiding Place...'   little short of outright plagiarism.  I do thank her though for copies of the marriage certificates etc.
My view on Larissa is perhaps new.  I think their might just be a wiff of truth in the fact that she was a Hauke though and it might just explain a lot of things.
I have recently acquired a post card of the R.M.S. Corsican  1920 and to my  amazement the reverse has a scribbled out message on which a few words are still recognisable and guess what?  Hauke is one of those words.  The rest are not English words as I do not recognise a single cluster of letters.  There is also a date 28 9 21 which does not mean it was obtained then - it may have come from an earlier date and was just written on on that date. I suspect the  writing  might be Russian.
I accept much of what has been written about Meinertzagen but would point out that recently some of the charges against him have been debunked.  As regards Occleshaw I think he has added a huge amount to what we know and introduced a lot for us to think about so basically I think he is on the side of the angels.
All the best,
Jim

Offline Rachael89

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2006, 01:15:51 PM »
I was able to get hold of a copy of No Resting Place, it's got some good photos, but the only interesting information besides that is that the usual grave builder was told his services would not be needed, because she would be bried according to the religious rites of her country.

Because the book suffers from inflated prices and limited availiability, I have scanned the images of interest, including the marriage and death certficates, here's a link to the album:

http://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c124/Rachael89/Larissa%20Tudor/?sc=1&addtype=local

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Rachael
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Offline Lordtranwell

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2006, 02:45:16 AM »
Having just read 'Romanov Autumn' I am left wondering whether Larissa may have been an illigitimate offspring  of a high ranking Romanov.  The patronym 'Feodorovna' was certainly a significant one yet in the pedigrees in the book there is no reference to Larissa.  I am thinking that a descendent who uses this patronym must be of high status and the only way forward is to consider someone born outside the legitimate circle.  It also occurs to me that Owen Tudor placed this enigma on her headstone that others might bring this matter to light.
Tranwell.

Offline jehan

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Re: Larissa Fedorovna/Tatiana Claimant
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2006, 09:52:29 PM »
Having just read 'Romanov Autumn' I am left wondering whether Larissa may have been an illigitimate offspring  of a high ranking Romanov.  The patronym 'Feodorovna' was certainly a significant one yet in the pedigrees in the book there is no reference to Larissa.  I am thinking that a descendent who uses this patronym must be of high status and the only way forward is to consider someone born outside the legitimate circle.  It also occurs to me that Owen Tudor placed this enigma on her headstone that others might bring this matter to light.
Tranwell.

I don't think the patronym is all that unusual in Russia now or in pre-revolutionary times.  Fedor was and is a fairly common name in all ranks of society in Russia and has no special significance.  All it means is that Larissas's father was named Fedor.  There are no doubt hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) of Russians throughout history with that patronymic.  The fact a couple of Empresses used it as well has no bearing on this.  If Larissa was the illegitimate daughter of a high ranking Romanov, she would have used the name of said father, and only used Fedorovna if his name happened to be Fedor.
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