Relationship of Marie Feodorovna & Empress Alexandra

Alicky was known to be cold, blunt and not diplomatic. I think people do want to understand her but I don't think Alicky allowed anyone to get too close. The isolation of the Imperial Family was ALL Alicky's doing. Even family like Greek Minny and Missy felt being shunned out. 

The major reason why the Imperial Family remained in Tsarskoe Selo was to maintain the national secrect that Alexei suffered hemophilia. Many of the Romanov family were unaware of that fact and as were the Russian people.

If you have the opportunity to read MF's published diaries you will find that that she had few warm feelings towards her daughter-in-law, often refering to her as "she", whilst others were named with affection. She cared little about the fact that Alexandra sat for days morning and night by Alexei's bedside, tired and distressed not knowing if Alexei would survive the night. She cared little about the fact that Alexandra prefered to personally manage the day-to-day details for her children. MF just wanted to dance and dance ... like the old days and meddle in her son's political decisions. MF failed to unify the family and instead maintained her own powerful court.

Margarita

I wonder whether you have read much about her? She really tried to help Alexandra but was rejected. Many tried to help Alexandra but met the same fate. Read about Olga and Xiena. They both tried to like their sister-in-law but were pushed away. Alexis was a sadness but the real reason the Alexander Palace was used was it was a place far away from St.Petersburg after the 1905 revolution and more easily able to be controlled. Even today Pushkin and Tsarskoe Selo are quite a drive away from St.Petersburg. I visited this area in January so I can tell you this.

I wonder whether you have read much about her? She really tried to help Alexandra but was rejected. Many tried to help Alexandra but met the same fate. Read about Olga and Xiena. They both tried to like their sister-in-law but were pushed away. Alexis was a sadness but the real reason the Alexander Palace was used was it was a place far away from St.Petersburg after the 1905 revolution and more easily able to be controlled. Even today Pushkin and Tsarskoe Selo are quite a drive away from St.Petersburg. I visited this area in January so I can tell you this.

I have read a considerable amout about her in recent Russian publications. Alexandra NEVER rejected her mother-in-law, nor did she ever write unkindly about her in any of her diaries or letters. The same can not be said for M. F.

G. D. Olga was not pushed away as you claim. She was a very regular visitor at the palace.

I have been to Pushkin a few times by car and depending on your perception of distances - it was a 30 min drive from the city center.

In fact what was wrong with maintaining imperial security when terrorism in Russia was raising its ugly head? AIII did the same prefering to live in Gatchina which I can assure you is a far longer ride by car or train (well over one hour depending on your start point).

Margarita 

Alexandra was never really a warm person and invite love inside. She kept to her inner circle when she could have invited those who were loyal in. Greek Minny was one who was fozen out, and so was Missy (her memoirs were too well known to repeat here). Alicky wasn't even nice to Ella in her letters to Nicholas. Minny once said that she had hoped that her daughter-in-law could confide in her, instead she anything but about herself much to the older woman's frustration. 

Margarita I sadly have to disagree on this occasion. I find myself being more in line with Eric. There are numerous examples of Alexandra writing unpleasant comments about the Dowager Empress Maria Feodorovna, particularly during world war one. It was all very sad as Alexandra really needed support but chose not to be warm to those who could have really helped her. Both Olga and Xiena, while once fairly close to Alexandra, became alienated, upset and disillusioned by and about Alexandra. Alexandra was far from being an angel. One of the reasons Marie went to Kiev was she knew it was pointless staying in St.Petersburg because Alexandra was not open to listening. Alexandra couldn't even listen to her own sister who came from Moscow to try to help her. If you have not read Coryne Hall's book on Maria it is worthwhile and quite revealing as is the relatively recent biography on Xenia. There is also information on Olga in the book by her son Tikhon and other works. Further information is available in the book called "A Royal Family" which accompanies the wonderful television series of the same name. One episode is particularly fine entitled, "War and Revolution". The general consensus from descendants of Maria Feodorovna happened to be one of sadness and despair at the situation involving Alexandra. I do think the family tried to help her. She sadly alienated them one by one. She even was haughty in a letter to Queen Victoria who had warned her granddaughter that she needed to adopt a more open mind and be a touch more accepting. Alexandra replied that she didn't need to care what people thought of her. Bear in mind this was before January 1901 and the advice came from a loving grandmother and the doyenne of European Sovereigns! There were good points about Alexandra. She was though a difficult woman. Even Nicholas II admitted that as did their children and countless others. She was so easily influenced by people who really did not have her best interests at heart.

Thanks Dimitri. I think Alicky wasn't able to open up to people and had only a limited number of friends. As one who wanted to be mother of her people, such limited exposure was far from enough. Worse...Her retreat into her private world also robbed people who would be loyal to her husband, had he been allowed to exerise that person charm more often. 

Thanks Dimitri. I think Alicky wasn't able to open up to people and had only a limited number of friends. As one who wanted to be mother of her people, such limited exposure was far from enough. Worse...Her retreat into her private world also robbed people who would be loyal to her husband, had he been allowed to exerise that person charm more often.  

Their relationship was what I call "clash of the titanesses," two very strong women in close proximity. I agree Eric, by nature Alix was an introverted person, not able to openly share confidences which to Marie said aloof. It's unfortunate that they couldn't have a better relationship, but the circumstances/personalities were just not right. 

Mary R.

Indeed ! From the first MF wasn't convinced AF was Empress material. She gave in only after Nicholas was able to convince Alicky to marry him and Alexander III was far from well. 

Yes I think Alexander III was trying to tidy things up before he died. His consent for Alexandra to marry Nicholas caused him to even put on full military uniform to receive her. What an enormous tragedy his death was for Russia. Today he would have probably have received a donor kidney or gone on dialysis and survived. I very much doubt he would have allowed either a war or a revolution to have occurred. He would have been as ruthless as Stalin if necessary to preserve the dynasty.   

Yes...He was too young to go. Yes I think Russia would not go to war and the dynasty might be preserved. 

Alexander had the iron fist element that Nicholas sadly lacked. I always wonder what would have been if Alexander had not died. Minnie's relationship with Alix may have been better, no war...

Mary R.

IMO, the alliances were in place. War was inevitable.  No one really wanted it, but it had to happen. Under AIII however, I would imagine it would have been far better managed.  Also, the Empress Marie would have been a leading figure in the support efforts while Alexandra might have been a quiet "in the shadows" figure, learning her place in Russia instead of being an arrogant isolationist.

I suppose you're right Robert, the stage was certainly set. After all, wasn't it Alexander who formed the French alliance? 

Mary R.

Both Sasha and Bertie (Brothers-in-laws) were known to be peace-loving men. They forged these alliances trying to contain Germany and lessen the possibility of war. This worked when able Germans like Bismark was in charge. He knew how far Germany can go without bringing down the forces. One politican even believed that had either men is alive, Willy may have second thoughts about the war. However with Georgie & Nicky on the thrones, he felt confident he can control the situation. And yes, Alicky would have stayed in the shadows and enjoy a less public role (which suited her tastes).