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Topic: Relationship of Marie Feodorovna & Empress Alexandra  (Read 33388 times)
Reply #75
« on: August 07, 2007, 01:54:56 AM »
dmitri Offline
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I do not believe World War One was inevitable at all. I doubt Alexander III would have mobilised an unprepared army over what the Serbs did to the heir to the Austrian throne. He would have been outraged at the murder even though he was a pan-slavist. Alexander III was none too fond of Kaiser Wilhelm II. He would have kept the peace though to keep his dynasty strong and secure. It was his weak son Nicholas II who ordered mobilisation. That was an extremely foolish thing to do. It was unnecessary and he was strongly advised against it. Germany also advised Russia of the consequences repeatedly, but as per usual, Nicholas II failed to pay any attention.
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Reply #76
« on: August 07, 2007, 02:23:25 AM »
Eric_Lowe Offline
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Yes...Sasha might have a chance to avoid war, but Nicky made it inevitable.  Sad
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Reply #77
« on: August 07, 2007, 05:00:14 AM »
dmitri Offline
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Yes most definitely a case of the wrong man at the wrong time.
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Reply #78
« on: August 07, 2007, 05:46:48 AM »
Alixz
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From The Last Kaiser by Giles MacDonough.   pages 2 & 3     the[  ] are mine.

"He himself [the kaiser] always insisted that he desired Britain and Germany to be friends and allies, Germany would police the land, Britain the waves; but despite a quarter of a century of persistent attempts, he never managed to reach an understanding.  In a Europe controlled in large part by his cousins he was unable to clear his mind of personalities in his pursuit of good international relations.  Faced by his Uncle Bertie, or high handed ministers such as Lord Salisbury or Sir Edward Grey, he felt the British put him down; they treated him as a grandson or nephew and not as the German emperor."

[This was in response to his fleet building program.]

"Instead of leading Britons to ask whether it would not be wiser to listen to the German warlord, they decided he needed slapping down."

"Some have argued that William allowed the war to happen because he was too readily accused of being soft."

"Sadly, the building programme triggered off an ugly arms race when Britain saw its naval ascendancy threatened by a fleet which sat taunting them form its harbours on the North Sea.  For extra security Britain concluded "understandings" with  the two next most powerful European countries, France and Russia.  The one still nursed its old grudge against Germany over the seizure of Alsace and Lorraine in 1871, coveted German gold reserves and maintained a giant, well-equipped army which seemed to be pointing east; the other [Russia] had resisted all attempts to form an alliance with Germany after 1890 and, despite the setbacks caused by the war against Japan, was well on the way to overshadowing its western neighbor not only in numbers of soldiers, but also in equipment, guns and railway carriages." [I didn't think that this was true]

"It [Russia] looked to the Straits at the Dardanelles and to the power vacuum of the Balkans where William's Austrian allies were also hoping to mop up a territory or two."

Now what, you may ask, has this to do with MF being unfair to Alix?  I have to leave now, but I will be back later to continue and get to the conclusion.


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Reply #79
« on: August 08, 2007, 03:58:19 AM »
Victor Offline
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I do not believe World War One was inevitable at all. I doubt Alexander III would have mobilised an unprepared army over what the Serbs did to the heir to the Austrian throne. He would have been outraged at the murder even though he was a pan-slavist. Alexander III was none too fond of Kaiser Wilhelm II. He would have kept the peace though to keep his dynasty strong and secure. It was his weak son Nicholas II who ordered mobilisation. That was an extremely foolish thing to do. It was unnecessary and he was strongly advised against it. Germany also advised Russia of the consequences repeatedly, but as per usual, Nicholas II failed to pay any attention.
Dmitri so true ,so true.Alexandre 3 would have had the courage of his convictions but Nicholas did not ,though I don't dought he thought he did.The War was not inevitable.I know I will face a lot of criticisism for saying that but I belive it to be true.George fifth should have said he would not commit his people to a dynastic squabble,so should have the other leaders.At first the war was local.I am familiar with the various treaties and so on in place at the time  but there was a lack of strong leadership and imagination on all sides.The empire countries were emotionly blackmailed into supporting the war,as they were in 1939.Tragedy,tradedy.It hasn't gone away-that feeling.It's growing.Just wait.
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'The world breaks all of us but some of us are stronger in the broken places.'Ernest Hemingway.
Reply #80
« on: August 08, 2007, 06:42:00 AM »
Alixz
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Just a quick thought before I can get some time to come back a finish my post.

Russia resisted all attempts to from a alliance with Germany from about 1890.  That indicates that Alexander III did not want to join Russia as an ally to Germany.  But of course Wilhelm became Kaiser in 1888 and by 1890, Alexander III had had enough of him and his posturing.

Which brings me to Marie Feodorovna and her hatred of all things German.  The whole Schlesswig Holstein affair and what the Danish born empress thought about it.

I will be back to finish when I have more time.   Wink
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Reply #81
« on: August 08, 2007, 06:21:16 PM »
Eric_Lowe Offline
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Minnie was anti-Prussian all the way and hated Bismark's guts ! However Sasha was a peaceful man (being fought in a war himself) and tried to avoid it.  Wink
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Reply #82
« on: August 10, 2007, 01:39:55 AM »
dmitri Offline
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Yes Maria Feodorovna was known to be anti-Prussian/German. She also is on record of being against the war due to a lack of Russian preparedness. 
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Reply #83
« on: August 11, 2007, 12:10:38 AM »
Eric_Lowe Offline
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Yes...That made good sense. Her late husband would have said the same.  Undecided
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Reply #84
« on: August 11, 2007, 12:59:05 AM »
Victor Offline
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Quite right Eric Lowe.Alexander would have held firm,not committed unprepared Russian troops to war.While not being much of a diplomat he would have found some way around Russias treaties and agreemants if it ment disaster for his empire,for his people and certainly for his dynasty.All sorts of negotiations could have taken place and the war delayed for months or years or,heaven forbid,peace agreed upon.A little niave perhaps given the history and the sentiments of the times but who's to say?Brave and strong and imaginative leaders can change the world.Would France and Britain have agreed to a more diplomatic solution do you think?Would Germany and Austria have taken part in talks?Perhaps it sounds too modern?The sort of thing that only happens after conflict perhaps.
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'The world breaks all of us but some of us are stronger in the broken places.'Ernest Hemingway.
Reply #85
« on: August 11, 2007, 03:52:40 AM »
dmitri Offline
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Well if Russia had not mobilised her troops Germany would have never attacked. It's really as simple as that. Russia was repeatedly warned by Germany not to mobilise as it was seen as a hostile act. Nicholas did not listen.
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Reply #86
« on: August 11, 2007, 01:38:30 PM »
Victor Offline
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Precisely!
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'The world breaks all of us but some of us are stronger in the broken places.'Ernest Hemingway.
Reply #87
« on: August 11, 2007, 09:36:55 PM »
Eric_Lowe Offline
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Agreed ! So much bloodshed could have been avoided.  Sad
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Reply #88
« on: August 12, 2007, 12:19:07 AM »
Victor Offline
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And Alexander could have sent Prince Felix and GD Dmitri to see King Ferdinand of Bulgaria to sway him over to their side.
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'The world breaks all of us but some of us are stronger in the broken places.'Ernest Hemingway.
Reply #89
« on: August 12, 2007, 08:15:32 AM »
dmitri Offline
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Well Alexander III would have done anything to save the dynasty.
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