Author Topic: Were There Any Survivors? Two Bodies are Missing!  (Read 43828 times)

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Carol_Shvybzyk

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Were There Any Survivors? Two Bodies are Missing!
« on: June 06, 2005, 08:06:48 PM »
Hey guys,I'm new here.
I'm Carol,from Brazil,so I speak Portuguese,a lil' of Spanish and English.Any help you want to translate anything from Portuguese or to Portuguese,just call me :)
***
On the night of July 16-17, 1918, the massacre with the tsar's family left one of the most famous rumours of the history: someone survived.

My historian teacher told me once that on of the girls DID survived and came to live here,in South America - I think this girl he told me about must be that baby who survived from the massacre and came to Argentina...But don't you think it's strange to Alix get pregnant at the exile, between all the stress, after the death of Rasputin and afraid of another hemophiliac baby?
AND there's nothing on OTMA's diaries about their mother pregnancy...for me,this is probably bullshit.

There's another version,but less people know 'bout it:
only the tsar and Aleksey have been shot in the Ipatiev house, while Alix and the girls were kept alive.

For sure,we know Alix,Nicky and Olga were really shot and died in that night.
On Alexandra's skull there was a huge hole of nine millimeters in diameter,and another smaller hole on the other side of the skull - that indicates that the shot passed  through her head.
And, as the history goes, Nicky covered up Alexei's eyes with his hands, tryin' to protect his baby from fear, and another shot passed through his hands.
Olga rests in peace now,but what about Tatiana, Maria and Anastasia?

Back to the scene of the Yekaterinburg's massacre:
The murders were blind drunk,and two of then refused to kill the children.
The grand duchesses were kind of 'armored'.The kids were wearing a diamond-studded underwear so that the bullets bounced off for some reason and ricocheted.they had difficulty in penetrating a solid mass of large diamonds.One of the Bolshevik's officers tried to stab one of the girls on her chest but he couldn't,because of their underwear.

Maria and Anastasia were pressed up against the wall,squatting and covering their heads with their arms, and then two men fired at their heads. After a while, one of the girls were still alive and crying,covering her face with her arm.But them couldn't shoot anymore because the doors were opened and someone could listen on the streets.
But I wonder... And if the bodies were thrown still alive on the truck?
And so did they though.And checked.They shot the girls and the rest of the family while then were lying down,smashed their faces,did horrors.
She rests of the Romanovs shows us violence and mistreatment,even before they were death.Many,many bones were broken.
Between the smoke,all the blood,there were four girls,which have just turned to beautiful and amazing women.
At that night,in my opinion,they didn't murdered the royal family.They murdered four innocent girls, which showed in their short life a strong spirit, pure heart and
a unbelievable faith.

Back to Tatiana,Maria and Anastasia:
One of the body's around 5'4,which is the last recordable tall of Anastasia.This one is claimed to be Tatiana,but she was the tallest between the girls,around 5'11.So it's probably incorrect.
Maria was 2 inches taller than Anastasia,and the other body's about 5'6 or 5'7.
The spine of the shortest girl was also a lil' used,and had some back problems.We all known Anastasia loved to climb trees and she had back problems.
So,I believe there's no way that Marie or Anastasia survived.
And what about Alexei?HE WAS GOING TO BE LAST TSAR ONE DAY!!
Of course the Bolsheviks had more interest on him than on anyone of the girls!
(...)

Well,this is my opinion.That day left no survivors.I do want to believe that someone escaped from that savage,but the truth is that they didn't.The lost bodies must been cremated or something like that...
So the only thing we can do,by now,is pray for our beloved family.


xxx


Ps.Guys,this is my opinion.I don't want any controversy with anyone.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2009, 09:51:59 AM by Alixz »

Offline RussiaSunbeam1918

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Re: Were There Any Survivors? Two Bodies are Missing!
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2005, 08:14:20 PM »
Hi!
I don't think the Alix being pregnant part is true. I mean, under all that stress, wouldn't it be hard to have a kid? (This is a question, I don't know...)  And she was in her forties, although it could happen I guess.

I agree, neither Maria or Anastasia survived...in fact I don't think any of OTMA survived.

I think most of the Alexei claiments are a waste of time, I mean, he was so small, and weak (80 lbs.) and he couldn't walk. Considering he couldn't move, I am sure he got hit. And being a hemophiliac, the bleeding wouldn't have stopped. Scince it is said he got shot twice in the head, I think the body probably went into shock, and he bled to death.

This is just what I think.........

-Dana


Offline etonexile

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Re: Were There Any Survivors? Two Bodies are Missing!
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2005, 09:42:43 AM »
Most of the claims to be the august dead would be a disgusting insult to them...if they weren't so laughable...

Offline lexi4

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Re: Were There Any Survivors? Two Bodies are Missing!
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2005, 01:29:42 PM »
There are numerous threads about this topic. You might want to check those.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline Georgiy

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Re: Were There Any Survivors? Two Bodies are Missing!
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2005, 03:43:39 PM »
In a sense they were all survivors, because if they hadn't met such a brutal end, they would have been more-or-less forgotten about (except Nicholas and Alexandra).

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Were There Any Survivors? Two Bodies are Missing!
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2005, 08:33:14 PM »
Dear Carol:

                      I'm an Historian from Argentina, and I'm very convinced that at least one of the girls survived. One or two of them. I'm an Anna Anderson supporter, but I'm also open minded to accept she was not the GD...If you show me another claimant so convincet to me as her. I hear about an "Anastasia" who was living in Argentina, in Buenos Aires, where I was born and I live, but I don't know her at all, nor know her name, nor how did she looked. When I was more younger (I'm 33 now) I believed that Anastasia and Maria escaped, but now I guess there were Anastasia and Tatiana, if another of the girls, besides Anastasia, escaped.

                       Feel free to email me and ask what you wants. I'm open to all theories and I like to analize them. Don't feel bad, nor rejected when you ask the question " Were there any survivors?" and some people shouts angrily to you: "No!!! Any possibility to it!!! All of them dead this night!!!". Some other people here would be kind with you and try to discuss you these matters in a civilizated way.

RealAnastasia.

Offline etonexile

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Re: Were There Any Survivors? Two Bodies are Missing!
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2005, 11:30:57 AM »
No one is shouting..."no"...that they all died and that all the so called heirs were mad for the most part....it is a small,quiet..."no"....DNA aside...the "Harlequin Romance" that any of them survived that killing-pit of a cellar is just that...a romantic fantacy....

Offline lexi4

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Re: Were There Any Survivors? Two Bodies are Missing!
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2005, 02:26:34 PM »
Quote
No one is shouting..."no"...that they all died and that all the so called heirs were mad for the most part....it is a small,quiet..."no"....DNA aside...the "Harlequin Romance" that any of them survived that killing-pit of a cellar is just that...a romantic fantacy....

So what you are telling me is no one lived happily ever afte???? :( :( :(
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Were There Any Survivors? Two Bodies are Missing!
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2005, 02:45:50 PM »
Quote
So what you are telling me is no one lived happily ever afte???? :( :( :(

This was no "fairy tale". This was real life. Real life people were brutally shot, stabbed and beaten to death. Their bodies stripped naked and dropped into a mine, then buried again. No one survived, much less lived "happily ever after". Life isn't like that sometimes.
Sorry to be blunt, but it just is what it is.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Were There Any Survivors? Two Bodies are Missing!
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2005, 03:35:19 PM »
On every parade a bit of rain must fall but never fear, Bear is here to remind you that GD Anastasia and Alexei have vanished without a trace.

So, at this moment in time, no one  can tell us where the missing two were after that eventful night.

What is there left for us to do, now?   Let some of the poster have them buried, let some posters have them escape and let some poster just scratch their heads and ponder over  all the possibilities which might have been their fate.

Isben wrote about right's and wrong's:
"The thousand strands of the web of fate are so wildly, so strangely entangled.. that if a man searches into it, he sees right and the bloodiest wrong become as one."

The fate of the two was death.

We just don't know where it occured or when.

AGRBear



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Were There Any Survivors? Two Bodies are Missing!
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2005, 09:10:13 PM »
Thank you, Bear, you are a good researcher and historian. I've already said it to you. Why? Because you let always an open door to the doubt, and doubt is the first historian quality.

  As Bear said, there's a fact: two corpses are missing from the common gravesite where they found the Romanov family and their servants. Where they are? I don't know for sure...You claims: "Sorry, all of them are dead; no way to anyone to survive. Understand that ALL OF THEM DIED" Well..I understand it: but where are their two bodies? You can't tell us where they are, for, as me and all the others you don't know the answer. You may said proudly: "There are somewhere in the Koptiaky Woods". Fine. It's possible. But they were not found. You may also said: "You'll never find them, for they MUST have been destroyed, blah, blah, blah..." Fine again. It's a great probability that is exactly this what happened. But we can't assure it. So; let us wonder about those TWO MISSING CORPSES. All right? I don't accept things for other people said me it's that way. I wants to discover facts by me. I'm an historian and I know what to do it, and that reality is not so easy to know. It would take years, even centuries to know a single fact. So we , people who didn't believe in this too easy argument ("They all dead this night") who was also the claim of the bolsheviks themselves...Odd enough.  You have the same opinion than Yermakov, Yurovsky, Mevdeved...Mmmmhhh.  ???

  I would want another arguments beside "DNA...Stop wondering...They are all dead...Stop thinking about it...Impossible to anyone to escape alive from this cellar...You are a dreamer, a fool, a candide, an idiot, etc, etc..." Learn to discuss things with convincent arguments. If you can't I will always think that someone survived.

 And, beware...I'm a AA supporter, but I'm open to the possibility she was not Anastasia (please, dont speak about DNA). read my post about her, and you'll find critics in them and wondering for truth, and not a blind faith in her.  >:(

RealAnastasia.

Offline lexi4

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Re: Were There Any Survivors? Two Bodies are Missing!
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2005, 09:41:46 PM »
Quote
So what you are telling me is no one lived happily ever afte???? :( :( :(

Please accept my apologies for my inapproproate remark. I did not intend to offend anyone.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline etonexile

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Re: Were There Any Survivors? Two Bodies are Missing!
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2005, 09:45:29 PM »
Dear AA supporter...We shall always speak about DNA in this form....it is science....Would you have us disregard finger print evidence?...Yes...as far as we know...2 bodies are missing....bad Bolshies...next time they hurriedly butcher people....they should be more methodical....

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Were There Any Survivors? Two Bodies are Missing!
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2005, 12:28:16 PM »
Quote
...[in part]....
The nine people are:
1 Anna Demidova
2. Dr. Evgeny Botkin
3 GD Olga
4. ex-Tsar Nicholas II
5. GD Marie
6. GD Tatiana
7. ex-Empress Alexandra
8. Ivan Kharitonov
9. Alexei Trupp



......

AGRBear


Two bodies are missing.

The missing bodies are GD Anastasia [or possibly Maria] and Alexei.

The area has been dug up and these two have NOT  been found near the mass grave as testified by Yurovskys....

You can't test bodies that are missing for DNA.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Were There Any Survivors? Two Bodies are Missing!
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2005, 08:03:15 PM »
Quote
Dear AA supporter...We shall always speak about DNA in this form....it is science....Would you have us disregard finger print evidence?...Yes...as far as we know...2 bodies are missing....bad Bolshies...next time they hurriedly butcher people....they should be more methodical....


Well; speak about what you wanted to. But the only thing you have to said to all people who still believe in survivors is "DNA" and a serie of incoerents phrases plentyof "..." everywhere, between them (I'm not speaking about etonexile, for he is not the only one who does this. So don't apologize for yourself. Your opinion it's only a resume from other people ones). All people is able to think what they want, but for me, science is not God. The only God for me is God. And since we live among human beings and not little angels, science could be manipulate, faked, etc. We may believe that a proof was made (for papers tell us that it's like this) and that was not true, etc.

  History is a hard profession, and historian must always grin when a new about a history subject breaks out in great titles in the papers. Historians must KEEP researching in his/her own until he/she is satisfied about what he/she finds...And perhaps, that they "found" as the truth wasn't the truth at all and further researchs show you that you were absolutely wrong. The first Historian quality must be DOUBT. Without it, you can't be a researcher, and you will only a be a "paper and TV-News believer".

 I remember when I read (yes, in a newspaper  ;D) that it was "The End of Anastasia's mistery", for her corpse was in the common gravesite. Sometime later, I purchased a book about the issue...and I knew that there was a lot of controverse about who was there, and that scientist believed that Maria or Anastasia were missing from the gravesite. But of course, papers didn't said a single word about their mistake. It was not "The End of Anastasia's Mistery" at all.

  When I was more younger (16-20 years old), I didn't believe in AA, nor in any claimants. For me it was ridicoulous to think that someone could have survived to the massacre. But I haven't read much yet, and when I started to read, to see photos, to compare facts etc I was already convinced that someone survived. When the DNA results come out my first thought was: "These are fake". I'm a fool, a conspirative person, a crazy woman myself, an idiot who questiones science (Oh..That's not right. In fact I question only "scientist" and not science) , I'm this and that. I know. But I' convinced, and I'm not a fairy-tale believer...quite the opposite.

  Sorry. We'll speak the next 10 years or so (perhaps more, perhaps less), and we'll see how is "the Romanov's case" in the future. I know you'll answer me with the DNA issue. I'm very sure about what I think and why. Sorry again.

RealAnastasia. :-[