Author Topic: Palaces and Castles of the Hesses  (Read 158448 times)

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Offline Helen

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Re: Palaces and Castles of the Hesses
« Reply #90 on: March 06, 2009, 02:26:10 PM »
"Das Darmstädter Neue Palais" by Petra Tücks, an art historian, is a beautiful book about the palace, its architecture and its interior decoration. It's published by Verlag der Hessischen Historischen Kommission Darmstadt. If you use this forum's Search function, I'm sure you'll find more details.  :)
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"  -  http://www.bod.de/index.php?id=296&objk_
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"

Offline Eddie_uk

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Re: Palaces and Castles of the Hesses
« Reply #91 on: March 06, 2009, 02:29:48 PM »
Oh, thank you Helen!! :)
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Offline Helen

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Re: Palaces and Castles of the Hesses
« Reply #92 on: March 10, 2009, 02:04:39 AM »
This year, the park of Schloss Wolfsgarten will be open to the public on 23-24 May and on 30-31 May. :)
(http://www.prinz-von-hessen.de/de/events.htm/details/4821)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 02:13:27 AM by Helen »
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"  -  http://www.bod.de/index.php?id=296&objk_
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"

Offline Olga Maria

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Re: Palaces and Castles of the Hesses
« Reply #93 on: March 16, 2009, 10:14:43 PM »
And I'm so unlucky not to visit it this year! Hmmph.

I just wonder if the house was occupied by the next generations of some other Grand Ducal family in Hesse?

Amazing colored fotos  by the most wonderful Yelena Aleksandrovna. Endless thank you very much!

Offline Helen

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Re: Palaces and Castles of the Hesses
« Reply #94 on: March 17, 2009, 02:58:40 AM »
I think Wolfsgarten Castle went to Prinz Moritz von Hessen-Kassel and his family after the death of Princess Margaret. He doesn't seem to spend as much time there as former Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig did after 1918.

The April 2006 issue of Architectural Digest   had a wonderful article with a lot of photos of the castle's present interior and park.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2009, 03:01:04 AM by Helen »
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"  -  http://www.bod.de/index.php?id=296&objk_
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"

Offline Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Palaces and Castles of the Hesses
« Reply #95 on: March 18, 2009, 05:58:47 PM »
Wolfsgarten is the Landgraf's permanent residence - tho' he frequently drives to Kronberg in order to his work so he actually spends most of his time there. Ernst Ludwig would - all his lifetime - spent the winters at Darmstadt and would often go to Romrod and Tarasp as well. Wolfsgarten was his favourite but he did not stay there as often as one is inclined to think
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Offline Olga Maria

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Re: Palaces and Castles of the Hesses
« Reply #96 on: March 18, 2009, 09:37:17 PM »
Maybe because he has other interfering duties that's why he can't stay there longer than the usual.


Amazing colored fotos  by the most wonderful Yelena Aleksandrovna. Endless thank you very much!

Offline Helen

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Re: Palaces and Castles of the Hesses
« Reply #97 on: March 19, 2009, 03:15:47 AM »
Ernst Ludwig would - all his lifetime - spent the winters at Darmstadt and would often go to Romrod and Tarasp as well. Wolfsgarten was his favourite but he did not stay there as often as one is inclined to think
Where did Ernst Ludwig stay when he spent the winters in Darmstadt in later years?

Almost all of Ernst Ludwig's properties were expropriated after the revolution of 1918.  Speaking from memory, I think the agreements reached in 1919 and 1930 stated that everything went to the state, with the exception of a limited number of specified properties.  The family was allowed to keep Schloss Wolfsgarten and a walled part of the Kranichstein estate and to use Schloss Romrod till Ernst Ludwig's death, and they could keep two houses previously used by staff members in Bessungerstrasse in Darmstadt, but the Residential Palace, New Palace, Schloss Seeheim and various smaller properties were all expropriated.  Although Ernst Ludwig was allowed to develop the Schloss Museum and Kranichstein Museum further, he seems not to have had the right to live in the Residential Palace or New Palace for longer periods of time after 1918. If he spent the winters in Darmstadt all his life, then where did he stay in later years? In one of the smaller former staff member houses in Bessungerstrasse?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 03:24:21 AM by Helen »
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"  -  http://www.bod.de/index.php?id=296&objk_
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"

Offline Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Palaces and Castles of the Hesses
« Reply #98 on: March 19, 2009, 04:14:11 AM »

He would stay at the Neues Palais. It was not erected with hessian money but exculsively out of his parents own property (predom. by Princess Alice's dowry). For that reason it was not among the expropriatetd houses and as a matter of fact remained with the family until 1941 when Prince Ludwig sold it and - thank God - brought the collections of art to Wolfsgarten.
My own grandmother would be invited by the grand ducal couple to a ball in the NP in 1931 and her father would get a postcard by Count Hardenberg asking him for a visit there in 1921. The Vermögensverwaltung remained there as well.
Kranichstein - by the way - remained with the family as well until the Prince sold it to the Jägervereinigung in (I think) 1951
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Offline Helen

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Re: Palaces and Castles of the Hesses
« Reply #99 on: March 19, 2009, 07:34:04 AM »

He would stay at the Neues Palais. It was not erected with hessian money but exculsively out of his parents own property (predom. by Princess Alice's dowry). For that reason it was not among the expropriatetd houses and as a matter of fact remained with the family until 1941 when Prince Ludwig sold it and - thank God - brought the collections of art to Wolfsgarten.
My own grandmother would be invited by the grand ducal couple to a ball in the NP in 1931 and her father would get a postcard by Count Hardenberg asking him for a visit there in 1921. The Vermögensverwaltung remained there as well.
Kranichstein - by the way - remained with the family as well until the Prince sold it to the Jägervereinigung in (I think) 1951
That's interesting - and strange! The New Palace may have been built with private money, instead of money of the state of Hesse, but the 1919 agreement states that, in principle,  all land and buildings that the Grand Duke used or which he had the usufruct of property of were expropriated, insofar as they belonged to the family estate of the grand-ducal house ("Familieneigentum  des Grossherzoglichen Hauses"), with the exception of some specified properties. Wherever the money initially had come from, it seems unlikely that the New Palace was not considered as part of this family estate. I checked the 1919 and 1930 agreements to see how it was possible that the 1919 agreement suggested the New Palace was expropriated, yet the palace was still used by the Grand Duke in 1921 and 1931. The documents aren't very clear, in my opinion. The 1919 agreement provided in a transition period in which Ernst Ludwig could clear the properties that had been expropriated. It seems likely that these provisions were implemented rather flexibly, as the 1930 agreement confirmed that ownership of any real estate belonging to the "Familieneigentum des Grossherzoglichen Hauses" had been transferred to the state of Hesse, but that - as I understand it - Ernst Ludwig was allowed to use these properties as long as necessary to allow a smooth transition for staff members and as long as the state did not need these properties for other purposes. It seems to have been a most generous agreement that left Ernst Ludwig little to complain about.

The situation with regard to Kranichstein wasn't entirely straightforward. The walled section of the Kranichstein estate was listed in the 1919 agreement as one of the properties excluded from the expropriation, insofar as that the Hofmarschallamt was allowed to 'lease' it. Sounds like a strange construction. Full ownership was returned only by the 1930 agreement, which explains why Prince Ludwig was able to sell it in 1951.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 07:37:02 AM by Helen »
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"  -  http://www.bod.de/index.php?id=296&objk_
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"

Offline Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Palaces and Castles of the Hesses
« Reply #100 on: March 19, 2009, 08:17:37 AM »
"Das kulturelle Erbe des Hauses Hessen" (E.G.Franz) p. 141 f

"Neben dem von Queen Victoria bezahlten (which is not quite correct) Neuen Palais und der Rosenhöhe, die als Privatbesitz galten, überließ der neugeschaffene Volksstaat der Großherzogsfamilie infolge der langwierigen Abfindungsverhandlungen die Landsitze Wolfsgarten, Kranichstein und Romrod, letzteres allerdings nur für Ernst Ludwigs Lebenszeit... schon im Folgejahr 1920 kehrte man zum gewohnten Rhythmus zurück, lebte im Sommerhalbjahr in WO und in der Wintersaison im NP"
p. 143 "Den letzten Umzug von Prinz Ludwig und Prinzessin Margaret vom Darmstädter Neuen Palais nach Wolfsgarten datiert das dann abgebrochene Kammerdiener-Tagebuch traditonsgemäß auf den 7.Mai 1938..... aus dem vertragsgemäß an das Land Hessen zurückgegebenen Schloss Romrod und dem 1941 an die Stadt Darmstadt verkauften Neuen Palais.........."
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Offline Helen

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Re: Palaces and Castles of the Hesses
« Reply #101 on: March 19, 2009, 08:35:39 AM »
Thank you for this information. The term 'family estate' ('Familieneigentum') as used in the 1919 and 1930 agreements was apparently given a very, very narrow interpretation. As I said, it seems to have been a most generous agreement that left Ernst Ludwig little to complain about.
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"  -  http://www.bod.de/index.php?id=296&objk_
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"

Offline Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Palaces and Castles of the Hesses
« Reply #102 on: March 20, 2009, 10:13:55 AM »

The reason for this is that the people loved him - within days after the revolution he would be seen walking in the streets of the capital without any security around him. He never left Darmstadt during those dark days and this even strenghtened the respect people had for him. They never forgot the goods he had done to Hesse, Darmstadt.
He would live at the NP until his death - innumerable attended his funeral.
Unfortunately - considering the closing of his Schloss- and porcelainmuseum - it seems that this love and devotion has faded...
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Offline Helen

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Re: Palaces and Castles of the Hesses
« Reply #103 on: March 20, 2009, 11:23:55 AM »
A working group has been created to study options for a new start, as you probably know. It may very well be that they will come up with a solution before it's too late. That's their task, after all. One option that will be considered seems to be a 'merger' with the Landesmuseum across the street with a relocation of various items, but continued used of some of the rooms in the Schloss. And I'm sure that they will listen to you if you come up with a better idea or know how to balance the books.
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"  -  http://www.bod.de/index.php?id=296&objk_
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Palaces and Castles of the Hesses
« Reply #104 on: March 22, 2009, 06:13:38 PM »
Sounds like a good start. Hope that there will be some improvements. It is sad for those who come to Darmstadt to see so little open to them...