Author Topic: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children  (Read 134556 times)

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Offline cimbrio

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Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« on: June 01, 2005, 02:55:43 AM »
Hello everyone,
I know this isn't technically an "Iberian" Royal Family since they reigned in Parma and Piacenza (Italy) but all the same, since their Bourbons, I thought this'd be the ebst place to post this question. I'm very interested in the extended family of Roberto I of Bourbon-Bourbon, Duke of Parma (1848-1907). I'm especially interested in having information on his children's lives, as well as his wives, and seeing photos of them all. This is his family:

(by his 1st wife, Princess María Grazia Pía of Bourbon-Two Sicilies (1849-1882)
1. Maria Luisa (1870-1899), married Ferdinand of Saxe-Coburg, Prince of Bulgaria (she was never Tsarina of Bulgaria, since her husband proclaimed himself Tsar in 1908, after her death). She died in childbirth.
2. Ferdinando (1871-1872). Died aged 1 in Cannes.
3. Luisa Maria (1872-1943). Died unmarried in Brunsee (Austria)
4. Enrico (Henry) I (1873-1939). Died unmarried in Pianore.
5. Inmacolata (1874-1914). Died unmarried on the eve of WWI.
6. Giuseppe (Joseph) (1875-1950). Died unmarried.
7. Maria Teresa (1876-1959). Died unmarried in Brunsee.
8. Maria Pia (1877-1915). Died unmarried in Rorschacherberg.
9. Beatrice (1879-1946). Married the Italian Noble Pietro Lucchesi Palli and had children.
10. Elias (1880-1959), married Maria Anna of Austria and had issue.
11. Maria Anastasia (1881-1881) died at age 13 days.
12. Augusto (1882-1882) Born and died on the same day.

(by second wife, Maria Antonia of Bragança (1862-1959)
13. Adelaida (1885-1959), Died unmarried.
14. Sixte (1886-1934), married and had a daughter.
15. Franz-Xavier (1889-1977), married and had issue.
16. Francesca (Frances) (1890-1978), died unmarried.
17. Zita (1892-1898), married Karl I of Austria.
18. Felix (1893-1970); married Gd.Dchss. Charlotte I of Luxemburg. Had issue.
19. René (1894-1962), married Margarethe of denmark.
20.Maria Antonia (1895-1977), died unmarried.
21. Isabella (1898-1984), died unmarried.
22. Luigi (Louis) (1899-1967), married Maria of Savoy. had issue.
23. Enrichetta (henriette) (1903-1987). Died unmarried.
24. Gaetano (1905-1958), married Margarethe of Thurn und Taxis and had issue.

Phew! 24 Kids! Forward any info please? I know three daughters became nuns (I think they were from the second marriage), and one daughetr was deaf. Any info on anyone at all?
Dan :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Amedeo »

Offline gleb

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2005, 03:19:15 AM »
LA VILLA DELLE PIANORE

 

La villa delle Pianore è un complesso di tre fabbricati, immerso in un parco di circa cinque ettari, ricco di piante esotiche e circondato da uliveti. I tre fabbricati sono: il palazzo del duca Roberto, la villa di Maria Teresa di Savoia e il moderno complesso della scuola.

La villa proprietà ei duchi di Borbone Parma fino al 1952, opera dell'architetto lucchese Martini e risale al 1888.

Al piano terra troviamo una splendida biblioteca, il salone di rappresentanza tappezzato di damasco rosso, una seconda sala di rappresentanza tappezzata in verde e la Sala Bianca decorata in stucco dorato. Era la sala da pranzo dei Principi.

Al primo piano vi sono lo studio del duca Roberto e le camere da letto dei Principi e al secondo piano quelle dei bambini e della servitù.

Attigua al palazzo si trova la villa di Maria Teresa di Savoia, figlia di Vittorio Emanuele I, re di Sardegna, moglie di Carlo di Borbone, duca di Lucca e di Parma, nonno di Roberto. La villa deriva dalla ristrutturazione di una costruzione settecentesca.

Il duca Roberto, nato nel 1848, divenne duca di Parma a soli sei anni. Nel 1859 il ducato entrò far parte del Regno d' Italia. Roberto si trasferìn Svizzera e poi in Francia fino a quando gli fu concesso di ritornare in Italia nei possedimenti di Camaiore, dove morì nel 1907. Il duca Roberto dette alle Pianore lo splendore di una vera corte.

E' sepolto nella cappella della tenuta di Viareggio (Villa Borbone).

Offline gleb

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2005, 03:20:02 AM »
The Duca Roberto died alle Pianore and he is buried there.

Zita also was born alle Pianore.

Offline gleb

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« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 07:01:21 PM by trentk80 »

Offline cimbrio

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2005, 02:07:56 AM »
People, I have some absolutely shocking news which is going to amaze you and leave you amazed indeed for years on end!

I post this VALUABLE info thanks to my dear friend Gon (umigon). Muchas gracias nene Be ready to read about tragedy itself!


Maria Luisa (1870-1899) died in childbirth.

Ferdinand (1871-1872) died aged one.

Luisa (1872-1943) was mentally retarded.

Enrico (1873-1939) was officially Duke of Parma from 1907 till 1939 but he too was mentally retarded!

Inmacolatta (1874-1914) was also mentally retarded and was (possibly, need to evrify this) deaf and mute.

Giuseppe (1875-1950) officially Duke of Parma from 1939 till his death, he was also mentally retarded!

Maria teresa (1876-1959) was also retarded!

Pia (1877-1915) also retarded!

Beatrice (1879-1946) was absolutely normal and married.

Elias (1880-1959) Duke of Parma since 1950 and head of the family since his father's death in 1907.Married etc.

Anastasia (1881-1881) Died aged a few days, she might have been (this is an hypothesis) also retarded or suffered some illness. She might have just died young like many children at the time.

Augusto (1882-1882) Same as previous....

Adelaida became a nun in 1909 in Soresmes.

Sixto (see Sixtus Affair)

Xavier (see Carlists)

Francesca. Also a nun in Soresmes since 1915.

Zita. Empress of Austria.

Felix (see Charlotte of Luxemburg)

René.

Antonia. Also a nun in Soresmes from 1921.

Isabella died unmarried.

Enrichetta died unmarried.

Gaetano married.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2006, 10:45:22 AM by amedeo »

Offline gleb

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2005, 02:46:44 AM »
It is also strange to think that Roberto had so many children and his brother Enrico, conte di  Bardi, who married the sisters of his brother's wives had none.

Offline cimbrio

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2005, 08:26:13 AM »
Maybe Enrico di Bardi wasn't able to procreate. What do you know about him? Any photo of Roberto's retarded children?

Offline TampaBay

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2005, 08:40:02 PM »
Arturo,

I would say that 24 kids is pretty shocking!  

I do not think the Prince of Burbon-Parma spent much time opening hospitals or serving as the director of the Boy Scouts/Girl Guides

He was out working to make money to pay for nannies & dowries.  Can you imagine paying for university for 24 children

« Last Edit: October 18, 2006, 10:47:16 AM by amedeo »
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2005, 11:48:59 PM »
Maybe the number of children as TB says plus the fact that so many died young or had physical disabilities. It would seem shocking by today's standards if not then. Plus the fact that one family could be so 'struck' so to speak.
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Offline cimbrio

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2005, 03:20:56 AM »
Are you seriously kidding? Out of the 12 children he ahd from his first marriage (having 24 is quite surprising but not shocking), 6, possibly 7, were born mentally retarded! I'd say that is pretty much shocking by any standard!!!!!! No wonder Roberto re-married soon after his first wife's death!

Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2005, 10:01:44 PM »


Shocking is not the word I would have chosen...amazing or incredible...being a prolific parent is not "shocking."

Take into consideration that the 24 children came from two wives and at a time when family planning was not an option and from a family that spoused deep conservative Catholic beliefs that stood for having as many children as God sent along...

As for the wealthy Duke of Parma, who possessed his own suite of private railroad carriages, having to go out and "work" to pay for these kids...rest assured, he never had to do so. Not only did he receive a considerble amount of lands and palaces from his Parmesan inheritance, but he also received a fantastic endowment (both financial and territorial) from his uncle the Comte de Chambord, which included large properties in France and the Austrian empire.

Arturo Beéche
« Last Edit: October 18, 2006, 10:51:52 AM by amedeo »
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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2005, 10:12:20 PM »
Does the Comte de Chambord have anything to do with the Chateau of the same name in the Loire Valley? I toured that and it was gorgeous!  :)
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Offline gleb

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2005, 06:49:38 AM »
Quote
Does the Comte de Chambord have anything to do with the Chateau of the same name in the Loire Valley? I toured that and it was gorgeous!  :)


You are right,

When le Comte de Chambord was born, the castle was bought back and given the little prince as a gift. After his death it was inherited by Roberto di Parma who was his nephew, then by Elias and in 1914 was  confiscated  by the french State, as Elias was autrichien. It became after a museum.

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2005, 07:02:25 AM »
The confiscation of the Chambord estate was a huge mess.  The family considered Chambord was not the private property of the Duke of Parma, but part of the entailed inheritance held by the head of the family.

Eventually the French government had to compensate the Bourbon-Parma family, since afterall some of Prince Elias' brothers fough on the Entente side durng the war.

Elias himself did not become head of the family until his seventieth year (1950) after the death ofhis elder brother, the incapacitated Duke Giuseppe.

Arturo Beéche
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Offline TampaBay

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2005, 08:26:10 AM »
Quote

Shocking is not the word I would have chosen...amazing or incredible...being a prolific parent is not "shocking."

Take into consideration that the 24 children came from two wives and at a time when family planning was not an option and from a family that spoused deep conservative Catholic beliefs that stood for having as many children as God sent along...

As for the wealthy Duke of Parma, who possessed his own suite of private railroad carriages, having to go out and "work" to pay for these kids...rest assured, he never had to do so. Not only did he receive a considerble amount of lands and palaces from his Parmesan inheritance, but he also received a fantastic endowment (both financial and territorial) from his uncle the Comte de Chambord, which included large properties in France and the Austrian empire.

Arturo Beéche


Arturo,

You are correct.  I meant no offense to anyone-living or deceased.  I look at Queen Victoria's large brood and shake my head in wonderment that she did not go crazy raising all those "royal kids".  Imagine my thoughts when I read of the Duke of Parma having 24 "royal kids".

Of course I am applying 21st century culture and financial realities to 18th-19th century culture & financial realities (apples to oranges).  I apologize for my ignorance & gawking.

TampaBay
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by TampaBay »
"Fashion is so rarely great art that if we cannot appreciate great trash, we should stop going to the mall.