Author Topic: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children  (Read 167369 times)

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Offline REMI

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #135 on: April 04, 2009, 04:00:17 AM »
Thanks REMI for telling the right name of the villa :) I would like someday to visit villa of the Pianore. Is  it private property of the Bourbons Parma? And do you know if the other property of this family - Villa Borbone, Tenuta Reale, Viareggio -  is open to public?

1)The Villa of the Pianore was sold in 1950  after the death of don Giuseppe 1st , duke of Parma...only in name...The estate belongs now to "Istituto Cavanis", a religious order, which has created there an upper school.In 1964, a new modern building was built...It is pity. But the chapel of duchess Maria Teresa of Savoy, Charles II Louis' s wife does still exist.

2)A Viareggio, the Tenuta reale or Villa Borbone, via dei Tigli, is a communal property nowadays.It has been restored cleverly. Exhibitions and shows take place there.The chapel was restored too in 2006.There,  many members of the two families Borbone and Lorena-Absburgo of Toscana are buried The chapel can be visited on request.

REMI

Offline REMI

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #136 on: April 04, 2009, 07:47:04 AM »
Here are two photos taken by myself on april 2005. This is the Pianore's portal of entry. It has not changed since 1893...





As we can see, the wrought-iron gate bears Roberto 1st, duke of Parma 's monogram: R

REMI

Offline REMI

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #137 on: April 04, 2009, 07:58:40 AM »
....As we can see also, everywhere there are "fleurs-de-lis", the Arms of France...Don't forget that Roberto is a Bourbon et Count of Chambord 's nephew.

REMI

Offline Ricky

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #138 on: April 05, 2009, 12:23:35 PM »
As a newcome to this thread, I a bit late posting, but I would just like to comment on two points made by Remi.

1) While the official archive of the Bourbon-Parma family may still be in Lucca, the private archive was removed some years ago and its present whereabout are unknown. This was pointed out by Luisa Trebiliani in her "Studi Storici Lucchesi" (1992) on page 36: "si ignora la sorte dell'archivio privato dei Borboni, che per un certo periodo sembra sia stato conservato in una villa della campagne lucchese". This makes it totally impossible to carry out detailed research on the private life of the family.

2) Again, while by far the largest part of Enrico, conte de Bardi's collection is still in Venice, with perhaps a small part in the University of Padua, I believe that the Mussolini government returned a number of items to Japan in the years before WWII. None of this seems to have corresponded to Enrico's wishes. Following his death in 1906, Ca' Vendramin reverted to the Lucchesi Palli family, one of whose forebears had been the second husband of Carolina, Princess of Bourbon Two Sicilies and Duchess de Berry, the original owner of the palace, who had sold it to Enrico sometime in the 1860's. Enrico's widow seems to have wanted the entire collection removed to Schloss Brunsee in the Steiermark, which had become the Austrian home of the Lucchesi Palli, but WWI intervened and it was instead seized as a spoil of war by the Italian government at the end of hostilities, perhaps because Austria was regarded as an enemy nation. Whether any part of the collection reached Brunsee between Enrico's death and the outbreak of WWI is by no means clear, but Brunsee seems to have belonged to the Lucchesi Palli until at least the 1950's.

Offline Paola

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #139 on: April 06, 2009, 02:15:04 AM »
Would be interesting to know who remove the private archives of the Bourbon Parma and where they are nowadays.

Where in Venice is the Bardi's collection? And in what consists this collection?

Offline REMI

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #140 on: April 06, 2009, 08:39:48 AM »

Where in Venice is the Bardi's collection? And in what consists this collection?

Count of Bardi's collection composes the Museum of Oriental  Art of Venice which is in Ca' Pesaro sul Grande Canale, near Rialto Bridge. This collection, one of the most important collection of Japanese art in Italy, gathers  very many cold steels, arms and armours, lances, hallberds, paintings on silk, vases etc...at the second floor of this marvellous palace. Here's a amazing pic of Enrico di Borbone Parma, count of Bardi as an oriental warrior...

REMI


Offline REMI

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #141 on: April 06, 2009, 09:22:59 AM »
Ricky, could you help us to solve this problem...
The Archivio di Stato of Lucca keeps the personal and political diary of Count of Chambord, "Le journal de Monseigneur", written between  January the 9th 1852 and November the 30th 1881. This is not the original but a copy made by a Jesuit, Father Eugène Marquigny at the request of Countess of Chambord. The original should be destroyed.Marquigny died in 1886 without having had the time
to complete his work. Missing the years: 1857,1858,1859,1867,1868,and 1879.
Now, a french journalist is claiming to have found again the original.He must publish it soon...
According to him, the original was not destroyed and would have taken a strange way, a little ...crooked. The  journalist says he had received it from someone who would have purchased from a second-hand bookseller("Bouquinist" in french) through several intermediaries from prince Sixtus Henry of Bourbon-Parma???
What about?

REMI

Offline Paola

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #142 on: April 06, 2009, 10:55:51 AM »
Ricky, could you help us to solve this problem...
The Archivio di Stato of Lucca keeps the personal and political diary of Count of Chambord, "Le journal de Monseigneur", written between  January the 9th 1852 and November the 30th 1881. This is not the original but a copy made by a Jesuit, Father Eugène Marquigny at the request of Countess of Chambord. The original should be destroyed.Marquigny died in 1886 without having had the time
to complete his work. Missing the years: 1857,1858,1859,1867,1868,and 1879.
Now, a french journalist is claiming to have found again the original.He must publish it soon...
According to him, the original was not destroyed and would have taken a strange way, a little ...crooked. The  journalist says he had received it from someone who would have purchased from a second-hand bookseller("Bouquinist" in french) through several intermediaries from prince Sixtus Henry of Bourbon-Parma???
What about?

REMI

Interesting this claiming. Will this journalist write a book? Do you known when? I read "Le comte de Chambord : Dernier roi de France" by Daniel de Montplaisir. It was based in his private papers , but maybe  like you said, it is the copy of the original  made at the request of the Countess of Chambord. Never we know if all  or  only a part was copied. Maybe the Countess didn't  that all was known??
« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 06:33:37 PM by trentk80 »

Offline Ricky

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #143 on: April 11, 2009, 09:42:33 AM »
Remi

This is the first I have heard of the original ms of the comte de Chambord's diary surviving intact. If ever you hear more about it, please let us all know.

On a not unrelated topic, have you any idea what became of the two castles that Carlo Lodovico owned in Saxony, Weisstrop and Uchendorff, which he apparently inherited from the come de Chambord's sister, who was married to Maximilian of Saxony ?

Ricky

Offline Duke of New Jersey

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #144 on: April 11, 2009, 02:03:40 PM »
which he apparently inherited from the come de Chambord's sister, who was married to Maximilian of Saxony ?

Ricky

The sister of the Comte de Chambord, Princess Louise-Marie Therese, was married to Charles III of Parma no to Prince Maximilian of Saxony who was married to firstly Princess Caroline of Parma (1770-1804) and then to the neice of Caroline, Princess Luise of Parma (1802-1857).

Offline Paola

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #145 on: June 14, 2009, 07:09:42 AM »
Remi

This is the first I have heard of the original ms of the comte de Chambord's diary surviving intact. If ever you hear more about it, please let us all know.

Ricky




The diaries will be published next week. "Journal du Comte de Chambord" by Philippe Delorme.

Offline Paola

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #146 on: June 14, 2009, 07:15:08 AM »
1)The Villa of the Pianore was sold in 1950  after the death of don Giuseppe 1st , duke of Parma...only in name...The estate belongs now to "Istituto Cavanis", a religious order, which has created there an upper school.In 1964, a new modern building was built...It is pity. But the chapel of duchess Maria Teresa of Savoy, Charles II Louis' s wife does still exist.

2)A Viareggio, the Tenuta reale or Villa Borbone, via dei Tigli, is a communal property nowadays.It has been restored cleverly. Exhibitions and shows take place there.The chapel was restored too in 2006.There,  many members of the two families Borbone and Lorena-Absburgo of Toscana are buried The chapel can be visited on request.

REMI


To whom should one ask the request to visit the chapel with the crypt of the Bourbons? And is the villa open daily?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 06:32:37 PM by trentk80 »

Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #147 on: June 17, 2009, 11:06:38 AM »
This is the telephone...

Tel: 0584 9661 (Comune di Viareggio - ufficio cultura)
Indirizzo: Viale dei Tigli, Viareggio

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European Royal History Journal
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510/236-1730
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http://www.eurohistory.com

Offline frohsdorf

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #148 on: July 20, 2009, 10:06:29 PM »
It's been a few years since I participated in this forum.  It's been very interesting reading all of the posts pertaining to the Bourbon-Parma family and the Comte de Chambord.  Some of the information is misleading, however.  I will be in Viareggio and Lucca this fall to examine the remaining papers of the Comte de Chambord at the State Archives.  They were donated to the City in 1963 by the eldest daughter of Princesse Beatrice de Bourbon-Massimo.  Many of his papers were burned at his death in 1883;  Don Jaime de Bourbon inherited many interesting items and had everything at Schloss Frohsdord inventoried in 1910.  Many valuable items and papers were given to an acquaintance, Viscount Canson, just before WWI (including the handwritten memoir of Duchesse d'Angouleme in the Temple Tower), who took the papers out of Austria.  Later, after Don Jaime's death, the Pricesse Massimo (his sister) tried to get Canson to return everything---to no avail!  And then the Russians burned many things at Frohsdorf in 1945.  So many things are now lost forever.  I'm very interested in the story of the Comte de Chambord's journal----how did Mr. Delorme acquire it?  Where was the original found?

Offline frohsdorf

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Re: Duke Roberto I of Parma, and his family of 24 children
« Reply #149 on: July 20, 2009, 10:29:01 PM »
Does anyone know where Elias de Bourbon-Parme is buried?  I heard that he has a famiily crypt in a church in Lower Austria, but it's very difficult to locate!