Author Topic: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose  (Read 163054 times)

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RomanovsFan4Ever

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Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
« Reply #195 on: February 26, 2010, 04:50:10 AM »
King Umberto II, Princess Maria Pia and Prince Vittorio Emanuele, it should be taken on the same day of the photo that I have posted in reply #113


RomanovsFan4Ever

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Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
« Reply #196 on: February 27, 2010, 11:23:35 AM »
A portrait.


Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
« Reply #197 on: February 27, 2010, 11:49:07 AM »
An elegant one ! Is it in Italy now ?

RomanovsFan4Ever

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Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
« Reply #198 on: February 27, 2010, 12:13:00 PM »
Unfortunately I don't know, I know some other portraits of Umberto that are here in Italy, but those are all from the time when he was Prince of Piemonte and (after) King, maybe it can be kept somewhere in Portugal?... I'm also curious to know who was the painter...

King Umberto among people.

« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 12:30:53 PM by RomanovsFan4Ever »

RomanovsFan4Ever

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Re: King Umberto II of Italy & Marie Jose (born Princess of Belgium) & family
« Reply #199 on: February 28, 2010, 04:52:15 AM »
The love and the admiration for him was present in many Italians, but in that time the "Republican Front" that wanted to change Italy was becoming stronger.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Sad. It must be shocking for him to see the people turn against him in an election. Especially when he was accusomed to displays of affection by the people.

Offline Noloter

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Well, actually it's not clear yet, after almost 70 years, if republicans won or not the referendum in 1946; many people weren't allowed to vote such as Italian war prisoners abroad and people in Lybia (North-African coasts were still part of the Kingdom of Italy, on the streght of a law approved in 1936, as Italy renounced its rule on Lybia only in 1947 because of the Peace Treaty), in Trentino Alto-Adige and in Istria wich were strongly pro-monarchy regions. Moreover expecially in Northen Italy, were they were stronger, communists/republicans de facto forbade monarchist electoral campaign by violence (they even forced people, in some cases, to vote for Republic); it's a fact that Monarchy got a huge amount of votes in Southern and Central Italy, while Republic got almost all of its votes in Northen Italy.
At first they said Morchy had won, and it was even referred to Pope Pius XII in Vatican Ciity. But communists/repubblicans threatened other political forces by promising civil war if Republic would had lost the referendum; Giuseppe Romita, a socialist leader said "Or Republic, or caos". At night De Gasperi and other political leaders went to King Humbert II annuncing Monarchy had lost the referendum. King Humbert asked a recount but Supreme Court, thretened and scared by communists/republicans, declared itself unable either to accept or reject King's request; however Supreme Cout had still to officially proclame electoral results, as provided for law. Not waiting for Supreme Court's declaration, Government - being too scared of a possible recounting wich could have been favourable to Monarchy - declared Monarchy's fall and Republic's birth; according to law, this action's considered as a coup d'état (let's think that during that night, Ministers, many communist/socialist political men and even Prime Minister De Gaspery didn't sleep at their home as they feared they could have been arrested by Royal Carabinieri  as traitors, and so thay slept at friends' home).
As Americans told him they didn't want to take Monarchy's side, and as he didn't want to make Italy fall into civil war again, King Humbert II left his homeland forever; soon before his leaving, he said harsh words against repubblicans and Government but invited people to stay quiet and stop violence.
Soon after King's leaving, ballot-papers were destroyed, so we'll never know if Republic really won the referendum or not.

Prime Minister De Gasperi once said of King Humber II that "he would have been a perfect President of the Republic".


[I'm sorry for my almost-OT post :-P]

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Well...I don't think it is OT. Umberto II's citcumstances of leaving Italy was a bit muddled. The ban on his decendents returning was even more bogus. It is high time to reopen the legality of this election or wether the last king of Italy was a victim of circumstances. Wallis, Duchess of Windsor once said "at least David went by his own accord, he was not kicked out (refferring to Umberto II) !".

Offline Noloter

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Wallis, Duchess of Windsor once said "at least David went by his own accord, he was not kicked out (refferring to Umberto II) !".
Unfortunately Italians (and I'm deeply ashamed to say that because I'm Italian myself) usually tend to shift their own blames on a single person; they did it with Mussolini despite full many of them had been by his side untill 1943, they did it with King Humbert II despite he had committed absolutely nothing that deserved him to be kicked off except being Victor Emmanuel III's son (some people think that's a sufficient reason, how preposterous), and they still do it nowadays. They got every benefits while it was possible, and then they rejected every responsability, so they could always say they were clean, they were right. Too many people still ignores that even Alcide De Gasperi (who was Prime Minister both in the last days of Monarchy and in the beginning of Republic, and is still considered the father of modern Italy), Enrico De Nicola and Giovanni Gronchi (both of them became President of the Italian Republic) supported Mussolini's Governement by giving their Vote of Confidence in Parliament, and that Gronchi himself became a member of said Governement having been appointed Undersecretary (a kind of vice-minister). But despite all this, they managed to appear as strong antifascists (and so, respectable people) after Mussolini's fall; actually full many people tried to appear as antifascists while they had supported Mussolini...many of them started to support socialists or communists, then, and so they could get their lives spared as some communist partisans used to kill who had been involved with fascism.
Soon after Republic's birth, Governement (by Palmiro Togliatti's suggest, who was the main Italian communist leader and Minister of Justice under De Gasperi) approved an amnesty for all people who had been involved with fascism; they appeared as merciful and benevolent, but actually they were forced to do that, as too many people had been involved with fascism and they simply couldn't arrest more than half Italy! There were too many!
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fascism supporter; it's just I don't like hypocrisy. Italians made Humbert II pay for their own faults, and that's just unfair.

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It is high time to reopen the legality of this election or wether the last king of Italy was a victim of circumstances.
Unfortunately in Italy, people who dare to rise doubts about Referendum's regularity are unfairly labelled as reactionaries, fascists and revisionists. Communist/republican propaganda is still strongly effective, and for this reason there's a kind of one and only thought among both Historians and common people; who has a different thought has to be punished, has to be excluded, has to be blamed, has to be made unable to speak. You know, there's a famous Italian journalist/writer/historian named Giampaolo Pansa, who some years ago wrote some books about Italian Civil War and the years soon after Mussolini's fall; well, despite he's still openly left-winged, as he wrote about comunist partisans violence against innocent people (including violence against monarchist during referendum electoral campaign) he's been de facto excluded from historians community, and extreme-left-winged supportes boycott his books in book-shops or impede him to speak at seminaries/conferences by shouting and insulting him during his speaches.
Nobody can dissent from their imposed-thought. It's sad, but it's true.

[Ok, now my post's really OT; I'm sorry, but I had something to say]

Offline Eric_Lowe

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I agree that it seems that Umberto II was unfairly punished.  :(

Wow ! You made Italy sound like the Soviet Union or the state in 1984 ! Really...If that is the case, there is no freedom of expression. Very scary.  :o

Offline Noloter

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Wow ! You made Italy sound like the Soviet Union or the state in 1984 ! Really...If that is the case, there is no freedom of expression. Very scary.  Shocked
Um...may be it's possible I exaggerated a little bit...I know, by reading what I wrote things could seem worse than they really are! May be I expressed myself the wrong way...
But it's true there's a lor of disinformation (and misinformation) in Italy because of communist/republican propaganda. You know, while Christian Democracy (the center-winged party wich ruled Italy from 1946 to 1993) and other center-left-winged parties (such as Socialist Party) or center-right-winged parties (such as Liberal Party - in Italy Liberal has the opposite meaning than in USA) were too busy with Economy and Industial affairs, the whole cultural sector was occupied by Communist Party. It egemonized Italian cultural world and imposed its own thought about History, Art, etc; almost all of Italian directors, writers, musicians/singers, journalists and historians have left-winged sympaties. Let's think that in 60's-70's, scolastic History books described URSS as a beautiful and liberal place where everyone was free and happy, and untill very recentely History books never said anything about the Italian extermination by communist Yugoslavians in Istria wich appened between 1943 and 1947; clearly communist historians wanted to hide communist crimes. You know, Italian democratic forces were too scared of a communist revolution, and so they almost let communists do what they wanted in order to make them stay quiet.
But of course there's freedom of expression in Italy, just like in UK, USA, France, Germany, etc, don't get me wrong! Italy's a free country, too free I dare say. It's just that, if your thought is different from their thought, you have to fight strongly to express it. Only recently, since 15-10 years ago, not-allineated writers/historians/journalists's work has been taken seriously by Cultural world. That's why we now have a lot of fair books about House of Savoy and it's members.

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Don't worry about being off-topic, Noloter. This kind of background information is much more interesting than an endless parade of formal postcards of 19th century royals who all look the same.

You know, while Christian Democracy (the center-winged party wich ruled Italy from 1946 to 1993) and other center-left-winged parties (such as Socialist Party) or center-right-winged parties (such as Liberal Party - in Italy Liberal has the opposite meaning than in USA) were too busy with Economy and Industial affairs, the whole cultural sector was occupied by Communist Party. It hegemonized Italian cultural world and imposed its own thought about History, Art, etc;
This is a very interesting observation, as it to a certain degree could be said to apply to much of the rest of Western Europe too, I would say. In the absence of real, economic power (in the Marxist sense), the extreme left has been satisfied with "ideological power".
« Last Edit: March 02, 2010, 06:36:48 PM by Rœrik »

Offline Eric_Lowe

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I totally agree with you on that. People outside cannot understand why the ban on the family of the House of Savoy is still in effect when Bulgaria, Serbia and Romania welcome their former rulers to stay in their country. Those WERE former communist countries !  :o

Offline Noloter

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Don't worry about being off-topic, Noloter. This kind of background information is much more interesting than an endless parade of formal postcards of 19th century royals who all look the same.
Thanks, I'm relieved now; I was fearing I could be reproached for being OT :-P

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People outside cannot understand why the ban on the family of the House of Savoy is still in effect
Actually the ban was removed in 2002; it needed a constitutional amendment, as the ban on House of Savoy had been part of Italian Republic's Constitution since its birth. I remember many Italian communists (and many republican fundamentalists) strongly contested that amendment at that time; they made demonstrations, insulted House of Savoy's members and accused Governement of being fascist (you know, they still think that monarchists are all fascists...how preposterous!). But Italy was somekind forced to remove said ban, as it violeted human rights according to ECHR (European Court of Human Rights). So I was very very surprised when I found out that former King of Bulgaria had been elected Prime Minister by his compatriots.

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Bulgaria, Serbia and Romania welcome their former rulers to stay in their country. Those WERE former communist countries !  Shocked
You know, people who lived in communist countries now hate communism and don't undestand why there still are so many people who supports that horrible totalitarian ideology (every totalitarian ideology, both right-winged and left-winged, is horrible to me)! It's easy saying "I'm pro-communism!" while you're living in one of the freest countries in the world where you can say/do/think whatever you want with no risk of being imprisoned/killed! I met some people from Eastern Europe (Romania, Ukraina...) who lived the dark times of communist dictatorship in their countries, and they told me exactly what I'm saying here.  

RomanovsFan4Ever

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I remember many Italian communists (and many republican fundamentalists) strongly contested that amendment at that time; they made demonstrations, insulted House of Savoy's members and accused Governement of being fascist (you know, they still think that monarchists are all fascists...how preposterous!).

Well, Communists here are so good in making ridiculous demostrations, they are always ready to "rewrite" history...it's very well know that, as I said in one of my previous posts, Mussolini detested Umberto II, although they coexisted, there has never been a real strong union between Monarchy and Fascist regime...definitely Monarchists are not Fascists.
The fact that we had our former royals still in exile in the early 2000s was a shame, the Government had made the right choice.

You know, people who lived in communist countries now hate communism and don't undestand why there still are so many people who supports that horrible totalitarian ideology (every totalitarian ideology, both right-winged and left-winged, is horrible to me)! It's easy saying "I'm pro-communism!" while you're living in one of the freest countries in the world where you can say/do/think whatever you want with no risk of being imprisoned/killed! I met some people from Eastern Europe (Romania, Ukraina...) who lived the dark times of communist dictatorship in their countries, and they told me exactly what I'm saying here.

Well said! ;- )
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 10:46:54 AM by RomanovsFan4Ever »