Author Topic: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick  (Read 255441 times)

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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2005, 04:36:06 PM »
That's definitely Queen Mary on the far left and Tsar Nicholas II next to her. George V is the bearded man at the far right. I think the older balding man near GV is the groom's father Prince Ernst August so I would imagine that Thrya is near him somewhere, perhaps the lady next to him. Wilhelm II and probably Dona are on the left side of the couple. Perhaps some of the attendants behind the couple are some of the groom's sisters?
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Offline Dennis

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Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2005, 05:14:57 PM »
Marlene,

Perhaps the Kaiser and the Royal family considered themselves Lutheran.  After all, Martin Luther was a German.  But, on Reformation Day,1817King Frederick William III introduced the union between the German Lutherans and German Reformed with a new litugy and the celebration of common services of Holy Communion.  This union may have been mainly administrative, but it did happen.  I think that by the time of Wilhelm II, the Prussian Church had assumed a more Lutheran identity.  The beautiful Lutheran Church in Jersusalem (near the Church of the Holy Sepluchre) and the Augusta Victoria Hospital were both built by Kaiser Wilhelm II and he and the Empress visited both.  

Marie Pavlovna converted simply because she thought it would improve her son's place in the sucession, as we all know.  I don't think KR's wife converted either.
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Offline Marlene

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Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2005, 05:52:20 PM »


"Perhaps the Kaiser and the Royal family considered themselves Lutheran. "  They did.  

" After all, Martin Luther was a German."   Was he?  Huge grin  (I wrote  a children's play about the Luther.)    "But, on Reformation Day,1817King Frederick William III introduced the union between the German Lutherans and German Reformed with a new litugy and the celebration of common services of Holy Communion.  This union may have been mainly administrative, but it did happen."

Yes, I knew this ...

 "Marie Pavlovna converted simply because she thought it would improve her son's place in the sucession, as we all know.  I don't think KR's wife converted either.[/quote]

KR's wife did not convert ... having a wife who was not Orthodox did not affect childrens succession.  Marie Pavlovna's children had dynastic rights, even though she did not convert until 1908.  These rights were acknowledged after the train accident, with a commission ruling that Wladimir would have succeeded and his son would have been the heir (if Alexander III and his sons were killed in that crash.)
The fundamental laws do not require that the mother has to be orthodox except in the cases of the Tsar and the heir ...  Alexander II approved of Wladimir's marriage - and as we know, when Tatiana Konstantinova married, she renounced her rights, and these rights were acknowedged NIcholas II in his Ukase  - yet, her mother was not Orthodox.  

It was certainly a political move by MP - because she knew that Alexis had hemophilia, and Alix was unlikely to have other issue, so it was entirely conceivable that the succession would eventully have devolved on her son
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Offline Dennis

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Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2005, 06:06:44 PM »
Now that's really interesting!  After the train wreck there was a commission set-up to determine who would have come next in succession? I didn't know it went that far.  I do reading about the words of MP "We'll never be this close again," or something like that.

So then, Kyrill was the rightful heir after Michael?  Or, did his marriage to a first cousin put that into question?

Suddenly, we're not talking about the Hohenzollerns any more.

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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2005, 07:28:33 PM »
Yes, this is discussed a LOT on another thread. There are the pro-Kyril and anti-Kyril forces and they really go at it.
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Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2005, 06:55:22 PM »
Did VL ever sail on her namesake Victoria Luise, the largest ocean liner on the seas around 1910? The ship sailed between Hamburg and New York?
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Offline Marlene

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Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2005, 08:26:15 PM »
Quote
Did VL ever sail on her namesake Victoria Luise, the largest ocean liner on the seas around 1910? The ship sailed between Hamburg and New York?


VL never visited America, as far as I know.  Nothing in her memoirs or in newspaper indexes
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Mgmstl

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Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2005, 12:02:15 AM »
I have seen pictures of Queen Mary from the wedding & the banquet, on her much admired toilette & suite of diamonds.  

Are there any photos of Alexandra from the wedding or the banquet in her finery?  Even in 1913 I have read she made quite a stunning impression when dressed for a state occasion in her jewels.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2005, 10:58:48 AM »
Neither Queen Alexandra of Great Britain nor Empress Alexandra attended the wedding unfortunately. There are some more photos I believe in the thread on VL's marriage.
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Mgmstl

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Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2005, 04:13:17 PM »
Are you sure about Alexandra not attending. I have read several books about this being the last great gathering of Royals before WW I,   Willy & Dona,  Georgie & May, Nicky & Alicky.   Didn't Victoria Luise dance with her father, King George & Tsar Nicholas
during the dance as described in her book?  I could be
wrong, but I have read in several books about their
attendance at the wedding in Berlin.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2005, 04:50:10 PM »
No, I'm prety sure that Nicholas was alone. It was the last gathering of major royals but not all were there. It was the last time George V, Nicholas II and Kaiser Wilhelm--3 of the most powerful royal figures were ever to meet. (As a matter of fact GV was the last British monarch to visit until EII visited in 1965)

VL did indeed dance the torch dance with the Czar on one side and George V on the other. Her husband had Queen Mary and Crown Princess Cecile. (They had previously danced with Wilhelm and Ernst August and Dona and Thyra). Must've been quite a sight!

VL recounts some of the royals arriving:
The first was GV and Mary--George wearing his Prussian uniform and being greated by Wilhelm & Dona (there's film footage of this).

Next came the Dowager Grand Duchess of Baden (Fritz's sister Louise), Prince Max of Baden and his wife (the groom's sister), the Duke and Duchess of Cumberland (Ernst and Thyra) and their daughter Olga.

Later that day came the Czar and there were again colorful welcoming ceremonies. He was wearing the Alexander Grenadier Guards Regiment uniform and the tall Frederick the Great cap. VL found this a 'truly imposing appearance' which caused a huge stir among the crowds gathered to welcome the guests.

Royalties took part in more than just the wedding ceremonies--reviewing troops, visiting battle practice, visiting castles and gardens in Potsdam and their countries respective embassies and other public events which greatly pleased the Berliners. Wilhelm and George V riding int eh annual spring parade at Potsdam was apparently a real experience to behold.

One little jaunt caused Wilhelm apoplexy though as the Czar snuck off with his brother-in-law Henry of Prussia for an automobile ride. No one knew they went and couldn't find them. Apparently the Czar enjoyed the freedom he found outside of Russia. Wilhelm however was furious since he saw himself as responsible for his safety and the German police were 'staggered' by the action.

After the wedding they stood in the receiving line under the canopy of the throne--VL and her husband with Wilhelm , Thyra, Queen Mary and the Czar on one side and on the other Dona, Duke of Cumberland, Cecile and George V.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by grandduchessella »
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Offline Marlene

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Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2005, 05:26:26 PM »
Absolutely positive that Alexandra of Russia did not attend the wedding ... this is noted in the press coverage at the time (ie the Times, NYTimes.)  I wrote about VL's wedding for Atlantis Magazine a few years ago.
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Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2005, 05:39:21 PM »
Spiridovitch also confirms that Nicholas went alone, arriving May 9 in Berlin with Prince Kotchuboy, Count Benckendorf, General Dyeduline, Mossolov and Prince Orlov. The wedding took place on the 11th, and Nicholas left Berlin that same evening at 10:30pm.  Nicholas and Alexandra presented a very important wedding gift of a huge Russian Malachite urn that was said to be the finest present given at the wedding by the Berlin papers.

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2005, 06:12:27 PM »
Were the royal guests at the wedding housed at the Berliner Schloss or the Adlon Hotel that Wilhelm financed to be a place where his guests could stay in "modern" surroundings vs the palace?
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Victoria Louise, Duchess of Brunswick
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2005, 06:13:16 PM »
The wedding banquet (I'm including the IDs of the guests):



George V and Nicholas II in the uniforms of their respective Prussian regiments taken in Berlin. They loved getting their photo taken together, this would be the last:
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