Author Topic: Savoia's jewels  (Read 45999 times)

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Savoia's jewels
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2010, 11:43:18 AM »
Indeed. Any information on the personal jewels of King Umberto's sisters ?

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Savoia's jewels
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2010, 12:29:30 PM »

(Savoy's Crown or Royal Crown of Sardinia)
I think it's very appealing that the heraldic crown of the Hereditary or Crown Prince apparantly had a blue cap:



It's like: Blue for baby junior!

Offline Noloter

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Re: Savoia's jewels
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2010, 07:17:04 AM »
Actually I knew that the heraldic Prince of Piedmont's crown was red, as it's shown on the Prince of Piedmont's coat of arms:


However I could be mistaking; after all, blue has always been the official colour of House of Savoy since XIV century.
May be, as it has always been connected with power in Western Culture (cardinals wear red robes, roman emperors wore red robes, etc...), red was a colour allowed only to Kings.

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Savoia's jewels
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2010, 11:10:12 AM »
Actually I knew that the heraldic Prince of Piedmont's crown was red, as it's shown on the Prince of Piedmont's coat of arms:
However I could be mistaking; after all, blue has always been the official colour of House of Savoy since XIV century.
May be, as it has always been connected with power in Western Culture (cardinals wear red robes, roman emperors wore red robes, etc...), red was a colour allowed only to Kings.
I will readily admit that I just saw it in the Wikipedia articles about heraldic coronets of rank and was instantly charmed by it! I leave it to an Italian-speaker like you to track down the exact heraldic regulations. Perhaps it is a case similar to Denmark: There exists designs for specific crowns for the crown prince and other princes, but they are almost never used.

Offline Noloter

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Re: Savoia's jewels
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2010, 03:19:05 PM »
Quote
Perhaps it is a case similar to Denmark: There exists designs for specific crowns for the crown prince and other princes, but they are almost never used.
There never was a real Prince of Piedmont's crown, it has always been just an heraldic element put on the coat of arms. The Royal Decree of Jenuary 1st 1890 about crowns and coat of arms said: "La corona del Principe Reale ereditario Ŕ simile a quella della Regina, ma con sole quattro vette - 3 visibili - moventi dalle foglie" (The Royal hereditary Prince's crown is similar to Queen's crown, but it has just four half-arches - just three on them are visibles - raising from the leaves)
     
Queen Helen's coat of arms; you can see the queen consort crown above the two shiedls.    Prince of Piedmont's coat of arms.

Like Prince of Piedmont's one, Queen's crown was only heraldic too.

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Savoia's jewels
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2010, 08:41:58 PM »
Thanks, Noloter, for the explanation. I can't understand why the cap was coloured blue in Wikipedia then. Strangely more Italian coronets have been added there, as we speak! Have a look here: Wikipedia: Italian heraldic crowns. What is your opinion about the coronets for the Savoy-Aostas and Savoy-Genovas?

That seems to leave Sweden as the only country where the monarch's cap is red and the heir's blue. I was going to proclaim blue as the appropriate princely colour, but then I remembered that all the hats of German and Russian princes are red! Seems like red and blue are the royal colours, period! (From my summber job at an Iron Age farm I also happen to know why: They were very difficult to produce in pre-chemical days: To make red you need some very rare, exotic insects or huge amounts of very rare plants and to make blue: fermented human urine mixed with the plant woad! Orange you can easily make from birch leaves, so that's a plebeian colour. Perhaps not a co´ncidence that the House of Orange started out as presidential stadtholders. :-)

« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 08:55:42 PM by Fyodor Petrovich »

Offline Noloter

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Re: Savoia's jewels
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2010, 05:52:31 AM »
Quote
Have a look here: Wikipedia: Italian heraldic crowns.
I looked, and I really don't know what to say...Royal Decree of Jenuary 1st 1890 clearly said: "Le corone del Re, della Regina e del Principe Reale ereditario sono foderate di un t˛cco di velluto chermisino" (King, Queen, and Royal hereditary Princes's crown are all lined by a crimson velvet toque). So wikipedia's picture is just wrong.

Quote
: To make red you need some very rare, exotic insects or huge amounts of very rare plants
That's exactly why red was considered a king's colour; red fabrics were very very expensive (let's think that ancient Phoenicians based a large part of their economy on the trade of red fabrics; they used a mollusk called murix in order to get a precious purple dye) and so only powerful and rich people could get them, such as kings, emperors, noblemen, etc...Roman Senators, for istance, wore red-hemmed white robes as a sign of their high rank.

Quote
What is your opinion about the coronets for the Savoy-Aostas and Savoy-Genovas?
Savoy-Aosta's croronet looks right, but Savoy-Genova's one looks totally wrong while it should look like Savoy-Aosta's one. The Royal Decree on Jenuary 1st 1890 said: "La corona dei Principi Reali Ŕ chiusa da un semicerchio d'oro, movente dalle foglie laterali, fregiato superiormente con una fila di piccole perle, tutte eguali; e cimata dal globo, cerchiato e crociato, eguale a quello della corona del Principe Reale ereditario." (Royal Princes's crown is closed by a golden half-circle, superiorly decoreted by identical little pearls; it's headed by a globe - wich's decoreted by a circle and a cross - wich's identical to Royal hereditary Prince's one.). The Royal Decree had also a sketch of every coat of arms:
   
        Savoy-Aostas' coat of arms                                                                                                      Savoy-Genovas' coat of arms

The coronet wich appears on wikipedia.com could be a simple not-royal prince's coronet; unlike UK, in Italy the rank of Prince was allowed also to not-royal families, such as Colonna family in Rome, or Capece Minutolo family in Naples, or Borromeo falily in Milan...the heads of these Houses still are Princes, but of course they're not House of Savoy's members.



Offline Carolath Habsburg

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Re: Savoia's jewels
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2010, 08:46:49 AM »
I was wondering if there are some info about which exactly jewels are at the Central Bank in Rome. I had a discussion in another forum about this and i d like to have the right info to keep the discussion. Thanks in advanced.

In the meantime, two of the lot of jewels that were sold by Marie Gabrielle  in 2007



 (I dont remember seen images of Maria Jose wearing this tiara)

Necklace



 

Courtesy of Grand Duchess Ally

"...Пусть он землю бережет родную, А любовь Катюша сбережет....". Grand Duchess Ekaterina Fyodorovna to Grand Duke Georgiy Alexandrovich. 1914

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Savoia's jewels
« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2010, 04:43:17 PM »
Always sad to see royal jewels leave the family.  :(

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Savoia's jewels
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2010, 12:33:32 PM »
Just saw a link on how Helene of Aosta's emerald necklace went to Princess Astrid of Belgium (through her mother-in-law Princess Margarita of Savoy-Aosta). I wonder what jewels did her younger sister Maria Cristina of Savoy-Aosta recieve from Helene's collection ? I do not know much about the jewels from the House of Savoy, so this is all quite new to me.  :)

Offline Alejandro Spain

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Re: Savoia's jewels
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2010, 03:19:39 PM »
I was wondering if there are some info about which exactly jewels are at the Central Bank in Rome. I had a discussion in another forum about this and i d like to have the right info to keep the discussion. Thanks in advanced.

In the meantime, two of the lot of jewels that were sold by Marie Gabrielle  in 2007



 (I dont remember seen images of Maria Jose wearing this tiara)

Necklace



 

Queen Maria Jose never wore this diadem. She inherited it when her brother died (in the eigthies I guess).

Regards!

Offline Carolath Habsburg

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Re: Savoia's jewels
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2010, 04:24:28 AM »
I know, that s why i never saw a picture of her using it.

Courtesy of Grand Duchess Ally

"...Пусть он землю бережет родную, А любовь Катюша сбережет....". Grand Duchess Ekaterina Fyodorovna to Grand Duke Georgiy Alexandrovich. 1914

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Savoia's jewels
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2010, 10:44:36 AM »
I think there was a painting of her wearing it...

Offline ashdean

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Re: Savoia's jewels
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2010, 02:20:26 PM »
Just saw a link on how Helene of Aosta's emerald necklace went to Princess Astrid of Belgium (through her mother-in-law Princess Margarita of Savoy-Aosta). I wonder what jewels did her younger sister Maria Cristina of Savoy-Aosta recieve from Helene's collection ? I do not know much about the jewels from the House of Savoy, so this is all quite new to me.  :)
Helene had many gems including a second (slightly less spectacular emerald necklace) and a large diamond rivere...no doubt MC inherited one of those..

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Savoia's jewels
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2010, 08:18:58 AM »
Thanks Ashdean. It is nice to know more about the Savoy jewels. I wonder if there is a photo of this emerald necklace. Got the Italian edition of the Gabriella of Savoy jewel book.