Author Topic: Claimants of Grand Duchess Marie Nikolaevna  (Read 64111 times)

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Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Claimants of Grand Duchess Marie Nikolaevna
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2005, 07:18:54 PM »
I'm not very convinced about Granny Alina being Maria, but I don't like the "anti-survivors theories" attitude. When I believe in a claimant or don't believe , I always give my reasons of it. I think that only writting: "No; she wasn't Maria", "This woman is not our dear Maria" and so, doesn't help in an historical board. It would be the same if me, as a AA supporter would write: "AA was Anastasia" or "There is no doubt; she was Anastasia and nobody can think otherwise without being a fool".

We are in an historical forum...So...Give reasons for or againts an argument. "No" and "Yes" are not useful here.

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Re: Claimants of Grand Duchess Marie Nikolaevna
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2005, 10:14:51 PM »
granny alina was not maria, nor was anna anderson anastasia. no members of the imperial family survived. two bodies are missing from the grave and they are maria and aleksei. the reason why they are missing is because their bodies were burnt while the others were buried.

Offline Rachael89

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Re: Claimants of Grand Duchess Marie Nikolaevna
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2005, 07:45:53 AM »
This is going to sound like it goes on the survivor board but oh well, so does the rest of the thread in general!

Lovy, it has been found to be impossible to completely reduce the body of one human (let alone two) to ash in the conditions and time that was vailiable to Yurovksy et all. So either their remians were buried seperately from the main pit (by far the most likely) or one or both survived (very, very unlikely, but there is an itsy bitzy chance.)

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Rachael89 »
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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Claimants of Grand Duchess Marie Nikolaevna
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2005, 10:32:36 AM »
I think that who survived and who didn't is a very fundamental question of the Romanovs and it is important to discuss this, but always on the right board, of course. I think it is important to give reasons why you say something, but then it is common sense that it is not likely that any member of the family survived. And that, of course, takes care of the survivor issue. But everyone can have their own opinions if they want.

calebGmoney

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Re: Claimants of Grand Duchess Marie Nikolaevna
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2005, 03:50:10 PM »
She looks much like Marie in my opiniion, but that's not always a reason to believe in someone. If the bones found in Ekaterinburg were those of the Romanovs, than according to the evidence Dr. William Maples provided, Marie was among the nine bodies found.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by calebGmoney »

Offline Robby

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Re: Claimants of Grand Duchess Marie Nikolaevna
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2006, 05:59:27 AM »
That's Anastasia.
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Offline grandduchess_42

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Re: Claimants of Grand Duchess Marie Nikolaevna
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2006, 10:48:40 AM »
shure she might look like Marie. but like calebGmoney said. if doctors found the bones of her than she obviosly died with her family.
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Offline Robby

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Re: Claimants of Grand Duchess Marie Nikolaevna
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2006, 03:50:08 PM »
Uhm, Emily, the're we're two investigations done on their bones, one said that anastasia was missing, and one said that Maria was missing.

But the one we can trust is the one that tell's us Maria is missing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Robby »
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Offline Holly

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Re: Claimants of Grand Duchess Marie Nikolaevna
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2006, 05:06:26 PM »
I think it was the Russian investigators who said it was Maria missing. The Americans said it was Anastasia. Personally, I don't think any of the claimants that we know of were Maria or Anastasia. None of them look like the Grand Duchess that they claim to be. Wouldn't you think if someone really was one of the Grand Duchesses we would at least recognize them? I don't think any of them survived. Probably burned and buried somewhere seperate. I wish we could continue searching for them.  :'(
"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

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calebGmoney

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Re: Claimants of Grand Duchess Marie Nikolaevna
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2006, 05:20:04 PM »
Quote
Uhm, Emily, the're we're two investigations done on their bones, one said that anastasia was missing, and one said that Maria was missing.

But the one we can trust is the one that tell's us Maria is missing.

But you must also take into the account that Russian scientists did not want Anastasia to be missing. They wanted to disprove the Western myths. You must also take into account that the Russian scientists only concluded that Anastasia was among the bodies by a method of matching a skeleton with a face. However, the Americans and Dr. Maples not only noticed that Anastasia was the shortest of the Grand Duchesses, but that all of the vertebrae had rings fully conected on them. In a girl just turned 17, you would most likely not see rings connected at all, while if they were, that would most likely not be fully connected. So in my opinion, the evidence clearly points clearly to the missing body being that of Anastasia. Of course, I do have my doubts about these being the authentic bones of Nicholas II, but if they truly are, then Marie is probably among them.

Offline Holly

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Re: Claimants of Grand Duchess Marie Nikolaevna
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2006, 06:35:55 PM »
I agree with you Caleb. But, I do think these are the remains of the IF. What are the odds of finding a grave that matches the descriptions of their murderers, and  the bodies of the people matching the descriptions of the victims??? I don't see how it can't be them.
"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

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calebGmoney

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Re: Claimants of Grand Duchess Marie Nikolaevna
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2006, 07:13:22 PM »
Quote
I agree with you Caleb. But, I do think these are the remains of the IF. What are the odds of finding a grave that matches the descriptions of their murderers, and  the bodies of the people matching the descriptions of the victims??? I don't see how it can't be them.

Well, the fact is that two bodies are missing, so therefore it's not true that they would match the physical descriptions exactly. And of course, so many people were being killed during the revolution. Those bones could be anyone. Although testing by Dr. Peter Gill and Dr. Mary-Claire King put that doubt to rest when they concluded that the mtDNA of 4 of the females matched that of Prince Philip exactly. However, Dr. Knight and others think that a match like that is really not likely with old decayed bones. To put this theory to the test, Grand Duchess Elizabeth's finger which had been held in a wooden box when Ella's grave was opened in 1982 failed to match the DNA of her OWN SISTER! Then a hankerchief with Nicholas's blood on it from the 19th century failed to match the DNA of the Tsar himself. If this isn't contradicting each other then I don't know what it is. I don't know what this says about one of the two sets of DNA analysis (those done in the early 90's and those conducted recently). But I'm not going to make up my mind until more DNA analysis is done.

Offline Lanie

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Re: Claimants of Grand Duchess Marie Nikolaevna
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2006, 02:27:03 AM »
The finger was not Ella's (we have no clue who it was - I think someone said Varvara?), and the handkerchief had been manhandled to hell and back.

Course anyone who believes AA=AN will not relent so why am I saying this?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Lanie »

Offline Holly

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Re: Claimants of Grand Duchess Marie Nikolaevna
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2006, 09:18:23 AM »
Thats true Lanie!  ;)
"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

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Offline Robby

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Re: Claimants of Grand Duchess Marie Nikolaevna
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2006, 08:38:50 AM »
Quote
But you must also take into the account that Russian scientists did not want Anastasia to be missing. They wanted to disprove the Western myths. You must also take into account that the Russian scientists only concluded that Anastasia was among the bodies by a method of matching a skeleton with a face. However, the Americans and Dr. Maples not only noticed that Anastasia was the shortest of the Grand Duchesses, but that all of the vertebrae had rings fully conected on them. In a girl just turned 17, you would most likely not see rings connected at all, while if they were, that would most likely not be fully connected. So in my opinion, the evidence clearly points clearly to the missing body being that of Anastasia. Of course, I do have my doubts about these being the authentic bones of Nicholas II, but if they truly are, then Marie is probably among them.


Did you actually know that skeleton that was found was very short? That couldn't be Maria, Maria was wasn't short she was tall, she was maybe even tall as Tatiana.
So, I think we most conclude that Anastasia is indeed among the dead, on that night.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Robby »
“Courage! I have shown it for years; think you I shall lose it at the moment when my sufferings are to end?” Marie Antoinette