Author Topic: The children of Maria II of Portugal  (Read 46477 times)

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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: The children of Maria II of Portugal
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2009, 07:34:34 PM »
Isn't some of this covered in the Saxony thread?

The Kingdom of Saxony (Sachsen) and its Ruling Family
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1840.0

 Saxony Princesses
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=9084.0

 Children of Maria Anna and Georg of Saxony
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=6235.0

Queens of Saxony
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=4174.0
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 07:39:07 PM by grandduchessella »
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Offline Amelio

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Re: The children of Maria II of Portugal
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2009, 04:01:55 AM »
I followed these links and no Maria Anna there  :(
Only posts about her son's wife who left him for another man.

Isn't some of this covered in the Saxony thread?

The Kingdom of Saxony (Sachsen) and its Ruling Family
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1840.0

 Saxony Princesses
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=9084.0

 Children of Maria Anna and Georg of Saxony
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=6235.0

Queens of Saxony
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=4174.0

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: The children of Maria II of Portugal
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2009, 08:43:57 AM »
Hello DonaAntonia,

thank you so much for your kind answer. Maria Anna don't seem to be a very popular royal, so it's really great to have the chance to learn more about her! :-) Of course, I have some more questions.

Can you tell me more about Maria Anna's death? I didn't know that one of her children passed on its disease to Maria Anna. All I know is that she died quite suddenly.

As you probably know Maria Anna's two eldest daughters, Maria Johanna and Maria Elisabeth, died as babies. I sometimes wonder how Maria Anna dealt with this stroke of fate. Do you have any information - maybe also about the cause of the babies' death?

Do you know anything about Maria Anna's relationship to her husbang Georg? On the one hand, I read that he suffered a lot after her death and also thought about becoming a monk. On the other hand, Georg's daughter-in-law Archduchess Luisa wrote that he was conservative, arrogant and bossy. What do you think?

I would love to hear from you soon. Marie.
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Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: The children of Maria II of Portugal
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2009, 07:21:10 PM »
Hi,
Thank you Veronica, MarieCharlotte and Yseult for your wonderful contributions! It's great to have someone I can «talk» about Princess Maria Anna with. She really was a special Lady. The day she got married, she was brokenhearted to have to leave her family, but she stood firmly at the altar, and nobody saw her shed a single tear. «She cried it all out yesterday, by herself, not to hurt her brothers who all think they are losing a second mother». Queen Stephanie tells her mother that Maria Anna will  specially be missed in King Ferdinand's (her father) life, since she was the one used as a moderator between him and King Pedro V because of being so diplomatic. During the months they spent together at the Necessidades Palace, between May 1858 and May 1859, Queen Stephanie and Princess Maria Anna developed a deep friendship and the Queen thought she was «so clever for her young age».

Before the future King Carlos was born and after tragedy struck the Portuguese Royal Family (4 deaths in 3 years: 1859-1861), she was the 3rd in the line of succesion, next to her surviving brothers King Luiz and Prince Augusto. Her husband Georg was always reminding her of that, because he was very proud. For what I have read, they were not happy. Maria Anna had great expectations and was keen of her liberal background. Georg believed in autocratic Monarchy, unlike her sister Antonia's husband, Leopold of Hohenzollern. So Maria Anna avoided any discussions about politics with him. Later on, as his character was similar to his convictions, she avoided discussions of any sort.

When her nephew King (then prince) Carlos visits her, she is living by herself in a small palace near Dresden (I will try to find its name). But Georg insists on Carlos staying at the main palace «because Aunt Anna's place is so small».

All I know about her death is that she had been ill for more than a week when it happened in February 5, 1884. Her children had all had a fever and the youngest, Albert, got dephtyria. She cared for him day and night during 3 months and became ill, growing weaker and weaker. After her death it was Mathilde who became a second mother to the others.

When Maria Anna left Portugal in 1859 she carried with her the most expensive wardrobe you can imagine, all of which is accounted for in the Royal papers. King Pedro V insisted on it, probably because Queen Stephanie had come almost without any money to her marriage. Maria Anna joked saying she would wear her old Portuguese court dresses anyway. In some of her photos already in Saschen you can see her wearing those favorite dresses.

About how Maria Anna and her siblings, Antonia and the Princes, were raised by Queen Maria II,  there are a number of beautiful «jokes». Queen Maria was a «super-mother» and insisted on teaching the children herself and on going out with them to stroll through the streets of Lisbon like any normal housewife. That was what she understood being a Liberal meant. Once, at the public garden in central Lisbon, a poor boy came to ask for a kiss from the princes. As he was very dirty, they turned their faces on him in disgust. Queen Maria slapped them right there and made them kiss the boy because «it is them we live for». She is still called «the Good Mother» and «the Educator» in History books.


«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)

Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: The children of Maria II of Portugal
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2009, 07:25:10 PM »
A montage of Maria Anna and her family in 1858. From left to right: Queen Stephanie, King Pedro V, Princes Augusto and Ferdinand, Antonia, their father King Ferdinand and Maria Anna.



«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)

Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: The children of Maria II of Portugal
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2009, 07:26:34 PM »
Maria Anna and Georg of Saschen.



«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)

Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: The children of Maria II of Portugal
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2009, 07:28:21 PM »
Maria Anna looking sad, in my oppinion.




«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)

Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: The children of Maria II of Portugal
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2009, 07:29:56 PM »
Beautiful Maria Anna.



«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)

Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: The children of Maria II of Portugal
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2009, 07:47:46 PM »
Georg, her husband (not very handsome, also in my humble opinion). This photo was taken in Lisbon by Photographer Gomes in 1859.



«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)

Offline Terence

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Re: The children of Maria II of Portugal
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2009, 11:11:05 PM »
It sure is wonderful to see descendents of Braganzas who believed in Democracy! King Carlos did not die without any relatives except for his mother, brother, wife and sons, all of which have no issue. He was part of an enlarged family and this particular aunt was always close to him. Princess Maria Anna married Prince Georg of Saxony in 1859, at the Necessidades Chapel, in Lisbon. Unlike people generally think, she did not renounce totally to her succession rights. Her marriage agreement did say that, in the case of her brothers having no issue, she would again assume her rights to the Portuguese throne. That was the constitutional and democratic law still practiced in 1910, when Portugal became a Republic.

What are the details of this renunciation?  I'd always heard the pretender to the Portuguese throne was Duarte Pio Nuno, descendant of Miguel the Usurper.  Why are her descendants considered excluded?

T

Offline Marc

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Re: The children of Maria II of Portugal
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2009, 04:25:12 AM »
Beautiful portrait of George...are there any of Maria Anna?

Offline Agneschen

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Re: The children of Maria II of Portugal
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2009, 08:45:47 AM »
I remember reading somewhere that King Pedro was not overfond of his brother-in-law Georg, at least at first, and found him cold & rather disagreable. Need to check my sources.

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: The children of Maria II of Portugal
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2009, 08:59:03 AM »
According to me, this is Marguerite Nemours.

Yes, I agree. This CDV was for sale on ebay, but obviously it was misidentified.

Anyway, now I have another picture of Marguerite which are quite rare.
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


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Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: The children of Maria II of Portugal
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2009, 07:44:34 PM »
I remember reading somewhere that King Pedro was not overfond of his brother-in-law Georg, at least at first, and found him cold & rather disagreeable. Need to check my sources.

You are right, Agneschen. King Pedro V was not specially happy with this marriage, after Prince Georg had spent some weeks in Portugal, specially in Sintra. But the marriage had already been set with the King of Saxony, and with Princess Maria Anna's approval. It seems Prince Georg was rather absentminded during the all vacation, not fulfilling some of the scheduled compromises, and specially fond of talking about his future children's rights to the Portuguese thrown.This was a time when King Pedro and Queen Stephanie were trying to have children and the King still had 4 brothers and another sister, so it was considered very bad taste.


«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)

Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: The children of Maria II of Portugal
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2009, 08:01:40 PM »
Hi Terence,

I have been trying to find the «Diario do Governo» where the marriage agreement was published in 1859, but the site does not have an archive (the official Government newspaper is called «Diario da Republica» since 1977). I have some notes I took at the Library. The agreement had 18 articles and one of them clearly stated that the abdication was in favor of her brother King Pedro's heirs and also in favour of her other siblings. If they, however, had no issue, she would recover her rights. They do not have issue right now. Why her descendants never say anything about this remains a mystery for me. Prince Maria Emanuel of Saxony must know of all this we have been saying. Some Portuguese Internet users have raised the question in genealogy forums but nothing ever came out of it.
Still, as much as I like Maria Anna's legacy I must allude to the fact that only her great-grandaunt Ana de Jesus Maria had descendants that never left Portugal.
About Duarte Pio de Braganza, I recommend the topic «The Braganzas»: http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=11456.15
The facts I unveiled to some of the forum members who didn't know them yet have already made the usual polemics with his followers. I prefer not to make some people boil in little water, as we usually say here in Portugal...


It sure is wonderful to see descendants of Braganzas who believed in Democracy! King Carlos did not die without any relatives except for his mother, brother, wife and sons, all of which have no issue. He was part of an enlarged family and this particular aunt was always close to him. Princess Maria Anna married Prince Georg of Saxony in 1859, at the Necessidades Chapel, in Lisbon. Unlike people generally think, she did not renounce totally to her succession rights. Her marriage agreement did say that, in the case of her brothers having no issue, she would again assume her rights to the Portuguese throne. That was the constitutional and democratic law still practiced in 1910, when Portugal became a Republic.

What are the details of this renunciation?  I'd always heard the pretender to the Portuguese throne was Duarte Pio Nuno, descendant of Miguel the Usurper.  Why are her descendants considered excluded?

T


«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)