Author Topic: Maria II of Portugal and her family  (Read 64682 times)

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Offline Terence

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Re: Maria II of Portugal and her family
« Reply #60 on: March 31, 2009, 11:11:05 PM »
It sure is wonderful to see descendents of Braganzas who believed in Democracy! King Carlos did not die without any relatives except for his mother, brother, wife and sons, all of which have no issue. He was part of an enlarged family and this particular aunt was always close to him. Princess Maria Anna married Prince Georg of Saxony in 1859, at the Necessidades Chapel, in Lisbon. Unlike people generally think, she did not renounce totally to her succession rights. Her marriage agreement did say that, in the case of her brothers having no issue, she would again assume her rights to the Portuguese throne. That was the constitutional and democratic law still practiced in 1910, when Portugal became a Republic.

What are the details of this renunciation?  I'd always heard the pretender to the Portuguese throne was Duarte Pio Nuno, descendant of Miguel the Usurper.  Why are her descendants considered excluded?

T

Offline Marc

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Re: Maria II of Portugal and her family
« Reply #61 on: April 01, 2009, 04:25:12 AM »
Beautiful portrait of George...are there any of Maria Anna?

Offline Agneschen

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Re: Maria II of Portugal and her family
« Reply #62 on: April 01, 2009, 08:45:47 AM »
I remember reading somewhere that King Pedro was not overfond of his brother-in-law Georg, at least at first, and found him cold & rather disagreable. Need to check my sources.

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Maria II of Portugal and her family
« Reply #63 on: April 01, 2009, 08:59:03 AM »
According to me, this is Marguerite Nemours.

Yes, I agree. This CDV was for sale on ebay, but obviously it was misidentified.

Anyway, now I have another picture of Marguerite which are quite rare.
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: Maria II of Portugal and her family
« Reply #64 on: April 01, 2009, 07:44:34 PM »
I remember reading somewhere that King Pedro was not overfond of his brother-in-law Georg, at least at first, and found him cold & rather disagreeable. Need to check my sources.

You are right, Agneschen. King Pedro V was not specially happy with this marriage, after Prince Georg had spent some weeks in Portugal, specially in Sintra. But the marriage had already been set with the King of Saxony, and with Princess Maria Anna's approval. It seems Prince Georg was rather absentminded during the all vacation, not fulfilling some of the scheduled compromises, and specially fond of talking about his future children's rights to the Portuguese thrown.This was a time when King Pedro and Queen Stephanie were trying to have children and the King still had 4 brothers and another sister, so it was considered very bad taste.


«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)

Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: Maria II of Portugal and her family
« Reply #65 on: April 01, 2009, 08:01:40 PM »
Hi Terence,

I have been trying to find the «Diario do Governo» where the marriage agreement was published in 1859, but the site does not have an archive (the official Government newspaper is called «Diario da Republica» since 1977). I have some notes I took at the Library. The agreement had 18 articles and one of them clearly stated that the abdication was in favor of her brother King Pedro's heirs and also in favour of her other siblings. If they, however, had no issue, she would recover her rights. They do not have issue right now. Why her descendants never say anything about this remains a mystery for me. Prince Maria Emanuel of Saxony must know of all this we have been saying. Some Portuguese Internet users have raised the question in genealogy forums but nothing ever came out of it.
Still, as much as I like Maria Anna's legacy I must allude to the fact that only her great-grandaunt Ana de Jesus Maria had descendants that never left Portugal.
About Duarte Pio de Braganza, I recommend the topic «The Braganzas»: http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=11456.15
The facts I unveiled to some of the forum members who didn't know them yet have already made the usual polemics with his followers. I prefer not to make some people boil in little water, as we usually say here in Portugal...


It sure is wonderful to see descendants of Braganzas who believed in Democracy! King Carlos did not die without any relatives except for his mother, brother, wife and sons, all of which have no issue. He was part of an enlarged family and this particular aunt was always close to him. Princess Maria Anna married Prince Georg of Saxony in 1859, at the Necessidades Chapel, in Lisbon. Unlike people generally think, she did not renounce totally to her succession rights. Her marriage agreement did say that, in the case of her brothers having no issue, she would again assume her rights to the Portuguese throne. That was the constitutional and democratic law still practiced in 1910, when Portugal became a Republic.

What are the details of this renunciation?  I'd always heard the pretender to the Portuguese throne was Duarte Pio Nuno, descendant of Miguel the Usurper.  Why are her descendants considered excluded?

T


«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)

Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: Maria II of Portugal and her family
« Reply #66 on: April 01, 2009, 08:07:09 PM »
The Royal family of Saxony after Maria Anna's death. You can see her picture (as well as that of Maria Josepha) to mark her presence.






«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)

Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: Maria II of Portugal and her family
« Reply #67 on: April 01, 2009, 08:08:54 PM »
Print based on Maria Anna's photo by Gomes.



«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)

Offline Terence

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Re: Maria II of Portugal and her family
« Reply #68 on: April 01, 2009, 09:28:38 PM »
Hi Terence,

I have been trying to find the «Diario do Governo» where the marriage agreement was published in 1859, but the site does not have an archive (the official Government newspaper is called «Diario da Republica» since 1977). I have some notes I took at the Library. The agreement had 18 articles and one of them clearly stated that the abdication was in favor of her brother King Pedro's heirs and also in favour of her other siblings. If they, however, had no issue, she would recover her rights. They do not have issue right now. Why her descendants never say anything about this remains a mystery for me. Prince Maria Emanuel of Saxony must know of all this we have been saying. Some Portuguese Internet users have raised the question in genealogy forums but nothing ever came out of it.
Still, as much as I like Maria Anna's legacy I must allude to the fact that only her great-grandaunt Ana de Jesus Maria had descendants that never left Portugal.
About Duarte Pio de Braganza, I recommend the topic «The Braganzas»: http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=11456.15
The facts I unveiled to some of the forum members who didn't know them yet have already made the usual polemics with his followers. I prefer not to make some people boil in little water, as we usually say here in Portugal...

Thanks for your response DA.  So in other words, Duarte Pio is considered to have a better chance at a restoration because he is more Portuguese, than the Saxon heirs who would legally be in line?

T

Offline Paola

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Re: Maria II of Portugal and her family
« Reply #69 on: April 02, 2009, 02:15:51 AM »
I remember reading somewhere that King Pedro was not overfond of his brother-in-law Georg, at least at first, and found him cold & rather disagreeable. Need to check my sources.

You are right, Agneschen. King Pedro V was not specially happy with this marriage, after Prince Georg had spent some weeks in Portugal, specially in Sintra. But the marriage had already been set with the King of Saxony, and with Princess Maria Anna's approval. It seems Prince Georg was rather absentminded during the all vacation, not fulfilling some of the scheduled compromises, and specially fond of talking about his future children's rights to the Portuguese thrown.This was a time when King Pedro and Queen Stephanie were trying to have children and the King still had 4 brothers and another sister, so it was considered very bad taste.


And as a father in law, George was not a nice one too, according to his daughter in law, Louise.

Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: Maria II of Portugal and her family
« Reply #70 on: April 02, 2009, 01:49:25 PM »
Hi Terence,

It is just about it.
If you go for the theory that only someone whose ancestors never left Portugal can be Duke/Duchess of Bragança, then it is Ana de Jesus Maria's descendants.
If you for the theory that the Duke/Duchess can have foreign ancestors, then you have to go for Maria Anna's.
Neither Duarte Pio nor Maria Pia of Bragança fill in either of the theories. He descends from a banned branch and there are more recent generations of foreigners. She was born outside marriage and the Monarchy law did not consider those children as heirs. But they do have supporters, of course.

Hi Terence,

I have been trying to find the «Diario do Governo» where the marriage agreement was published in 1859, but the site does not have an archive (the official Government newspaper is called «Diario da Republica» since 1977). I have some notes I took at the Library. The agreement had 18 articles and one of them clearly stated that the abdication was in favor of her brother King Pedro's heirs and also in favour of her other siblings. If they, however, had no issue, she would recover her rights. They do not have issue right now. Why her descendants never say anything about this remains a mystery for me. Prince Maria Emanuel of Saxony must know of all this we have been saying. Some Portuguese Internet users have raised the question in genealogy forums but nothing ever came out of it.
Still, as much as I like Maria Anna's legacy I must allude to the fact that only her great-grandaunt Ana de Jesus Maria had descendants that never left Portugal.
About Duarte Pio de Braganza, I recommend the topic «The Braganzas»: http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=11456.15
The facts I unveiled to some of the forum members who didn't know them yet have already made the usual polemics with his followers. I prefer not to make some people boil in little water, as we usually say here in Portugal...

Thanks for your response DA.  So in other words, Duarte Pio is considered to have a better chance at a restoration because he is more Portuguese, than the Saxon heirs who would legally be in line?

T


«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)

Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: Maria II of Portugal and her family
« Reply #71 on: April 02, 2009, 01:55:23 PM »
A painting by Mathilde, Maria Anna's eldest daughter. Almost all of the later generations of Braganzas were exceptional painters. Princess Mathilde lived up to that heritage.



«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Maria II of Portugal and her family
« Reply #72 on: April 02, 2009, 02:08:38 PM »
Dona Antonia, your thread about Infanta Antonia is now part of the thread about the family of Hohenzollenzollern-Sigmaringen in the Hohenzollern section of this forum. I don't think it was a good decision to put these topics together, but I can't do anything against it.
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: Maria II of Portugal and her family
« Reply #73 on: April 02, 2009, 02:22:13 PM »
Young princess Mathilde, who looked after her siblings when their mother Maria Anna died.
The first time she came to Portugal journalist Rocha Martins was amazed at how well she knew every place she visited, even giving information on where to «turn left or turn right over there after that tree». Because, Princess Mathilde explained, her mother used to spend whole afternoons with her talking about Portugal.





«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)

Offline DonaAntonia

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Re: Maria II of Portugal and her family
« Reply #74 on: April 02, 2009, 05:26:48 PM »
Thanks, MarieCharlotte! This is such a wonderful photo! I had never seen it. Princess Mathilde was such an interesting person. Pitty she didn't have children of her own. She kind of took her mother Maria Anna's place in the family all the time.

A painting by Mathilde, Maria Anna's eldest daughter. Almost all of the later generations of Braganzas were exceptional painters. Princess Mathilde lived up to that heritage.

I guess this photo shows Princess Mathilde while she was painting ...



«I am sometimes afraid of being so attached to my Country.
Only now, after leaving, do I realize how much I love the Portuguese.»
 
Princess Antonia (letter to her brother, King Luiz, 1887)