Author Topic: Spanish Bourbon Infantas  (Read 54924 times)

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Offline Tybalt

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Re: Spanish Bourbon Infantas
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2009, 05:30:12 AM »

Offline HSH The Duchess of Bourbon

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Re: Spanish Bourbon Infantas
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2009, 03:02:57 PM »
Maria Isabella of Spain (1789-1848), Queen of the Two Sicilies, daughter of Charles IV of Spain and Maria Luisa of Parma..

any interesting things about her? pictures? wikipedia is not very good =[


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Offline beladona

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Re: Spanish Bourbon Infantas
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2009, 02:27:59 PM »
Another picture of Maria Isabella:


she looks better there...a little...

Offline HSH The Duchess of Bourbon

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Re: Spanish Bourbon Infantas
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2009, 12:16:31 PM »
stunning tiaraaaaa..i wonder what she thought of the court at Naples compared to Spain
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Offline Gabriel Antonio

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Re: Spanish Bourbon Infantas
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2010, 12:32:20 PM »

The first time I knew about this princess was when I saw her in the famous Goya painting " The Family of Charles IV". She and her little brother look like they may be normal children. She actually looks very nice in this painting compared to most of the rest of them- and I was curious to learn more about what happened to her. Actually, this painting makes one want to research everyone and what happened to them. She was only 11 at the time of the painting
It was then I learned that only two years later this princess Maria Isabella in this painting married her first cousin Francis of Naples after his Austrian wife died, and that she was only 13 and he was 25. Today that age difference would be child abuse. Can you imagine their wedding night? Maybe this is why she came across to people as she did in the above posts.

Her first daughter was born when she was only 15, and this daughter Maria Luisa married Isabella's little brother Francisco- the one in the famous painting, when she was only 14. Isabella's second daughter was born when she was 17, and this daughter Maria Christina married her older brother in the painting- Ferdinand, Prince of the Asturias. Both of these marriages were uncle niece marriages. What do we call that today?  ( And the other brother in the famous picture- Carlos, ALSO married a niece, the daughter of another sister. AND the brother of the King in the picture- Antonio Pascal- he married another niece- an older sister of Isabella.) So, this painting has at least 4 uncle niece marriages connected to the people in it- maybe there are even more. The King and Queen in the picture were first cousins through their fathers. And, the Prince of Parma in the picture is married to his first cousin, another daughter of the King and Queen- the one holding the baby in the painting.
So, this is what I found researching this painting - starting with the pretty princess Maria Isabella. All the posted paintings of her on this thread, are not as nice as she looked as she was portrayed by Goya as an 11 year old girl.
And, I learned her youngest son- married - you guessed it- his niece.

Offline Gabriel Antonio

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Re: Spanish Bourbon Infantas
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2010, 11:57:37 PM »
On a thread under the Italian Royalty, specifically regarding Queen Maria Isabella's daughter Maria Antoinetta, there was a comment made about Maria Isabella having lived a scandalous life. I am assuming this was after her husband King Francis I of the Two Sicilies died in 1830. Or, was it during her marriage? Or, both during and after? One wonders if being forced to get married at the age of 13 to a 25 year old man had anything to do with her
behavior later in life- or if there is any truth to her having been said to be a scandalous person.
What scandalous things was she involved with and with who?

I can't help but think of the supposed scandalous behavior of her mother Queen Maria Luisa of Spain, AND her daughters- Luisa Carlota ( wife of Infante Francisco de Paula ) and Queen Maria Christina of Spain. ( fourth wife of Ferdinand VII) Perhaps this behavior ran in the family?
Or maybe it is all talk?-- and none of these people were truly scandalous-- unless you count possible court intrigue. When it comes to that, from what I have read, Maria Isabella's' mother and daughters get far higher marks in that department than her.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Spanish Bourbon Infantas
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2010, 06:08:15 PM »
Interesting fact. No wonder her daughter Queen Mother Maria Cristina of Spain did the same thing...marrying a soldier after her husband died.

Offline Gabriel Antonio

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Re: Spanish Bourbon Infantas
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2010, 09:41:07 PM »
Like mother like daughter. I wonder if the two ever corresponded with each other about their second husbands.

I believe there was a very negative reaction in Spain to Maria Christina's second marriage after Ferdinand VII died. In fact, didn't she try to keep it a secret for several years? I am wondering how someone can be a a Queen regent for an important country like Spain-- be in charge of running the country while also trying to hide multiple pregnancies-- at the same time. Think about it-- all the meetings and court functions and how that must have been difficult to do. No wonder people finally found out about it.
It reminds me of the very negative reaction in France when Caroline of Naples, Maria Isabella's step daughter and Maria Christina's half sister, had a child with a lower born person after the 1830 revolution, and then also a whole family of children from her second marriage. Then of course there was the behavior of Maria Christina's daughter, Maria Isabella's granddaughter, Isabella II.

I do not think there was as strong of a negative reaction to Maria Isabella's second marriage in the Two Sicilies as there was in Spain to Maria Christina's marriage- although I do not know. Maybe it had never been a secret like it had been with her daughter. Perhaps also because there were not any children involved it was less of a shocking situation.

I did not know Maria Isabella's first husband King Francis I was unfaithful to her. She certainly had a large family with him.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Spanish Bourbon Infantas
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2010, 06:38:44 PM »
Well...No wonder one author wrote that the Princesses of the Royal House of Naples had the "hottest blood" in Europe. It seems that he was right. Those women like their men are not made to be single...for long.

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Spanish Bourbon Infantas
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2010, 07:37:45 AM »
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No wonder one author wrote that the Princesses of the Royal House of Naples had the "hottest blood" in Europe.

Frankly, I can't see that two sexual relationships within marriage actually qualifies a woman as having 'hot blood'.  And Maria Isabella wasn't born a princess of the Royal House of Naples anyway, so that only leaves Maria Christina, whose qualifications for nymphomania seem rather slight.  Given both women married pretty repulsive examples of royal men, I'm not surprised they preferred their second partners to be of lower birh but perhaps greater attractiveness than could be found within the European Catholic royal gene pool.  But it still doesn't make either Maria Isabella or Maria Christiana especially 'hot blooded'. 

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Spanish Bourbon Infantas
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2010, 11:45:52 AM »
Actually the bio the author wrote is about Caroline, Duchess of Berry. Another hot-blooded Princess of Naples. It draws the parallel between her and her half sister, Maria Cristina, Queen Dowager of Spain.

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Spanish Bourbon Infantas
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2010, 02:30:25 PM »
So basically, the sole evidence for the 'hot bloodedness' of these Neapolitan princesses is that they married for a second time?  Wow.  Disgraceful, shocking and scandalous.  Rabid nymphomaniacs, clearly.

Offline Bourgogne

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Re: Spanish Bourbon Infantas
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2011, 11:46:43 AM »
Does anybody knows at least a little portrait of Maria-Amalia? Impossible to find something... Sh died very young, yes, but there must be some portraits...

And does anybody knows why she married his old uncle Infant Antonio-Pascual? How came this strange marriage?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 01:07:39 PM by trentk80 »

Offline Bourgogne

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Re: Spanish Bourbon Infantas
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2011, 07:14:21 AM »
Yes I've read that Maria-Amalia could be on the the famous Goya portrait, near Antonio. Some others say it's Carlotta-Joaquina.

I really don't know what to think about this. It's Maria-Amalia or Carlotta-Joaquina, and in the 2 cases, I don't really see why Goya would have painted an infanta dead 2 years ago and I don't really see why he would have painted an infanta who left Spain many years ago... It's absurd for the 2 solutions, and yet, one is necessary good...

Btw I can't really believe, that there is no contemporary sources from that time who could indicate us who exactly Goya had to paint in this portait...


I'm don't even sure the portrait on geneall.net is really her. As you say, MA is said to habe been unattractive and this girl is cute, and I think this dress and hairstyle are not very compatible with 1790 or even later (because this girl seems to be a least 11 y.o. and if it's Maria-Amalie that would make 1790...)
 

Anyway thanx for the informations about her marraiage I did'nt know she wanted to marry her cousin. If she was hurt when he prefered her sister Maria-Louisa, I don't think that it was a good consolation for Maria-Amalia to be married, instead of Luis, to his old and ugly uncle!

Offline trentk80

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Re: Spanish Bourbon Infantas
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2011, 04:49:23 PM »
I really don't know what to think about this. It's Maria-Amalia or Carlotta-Joaquina, and in the 2 cases, I don't really see why Goya would have painted an infanta dead 2 years ago and I don't really see why he would have painted an infanta who left Spain many years ago... It's absurd for the 2 solutions, and yet, one is necessary good...

I think that the girl next to Infante Antonio in Goya's family portrait is Maria Amalia. Although she was dead, she was painted with the rest of the family as a way of stating that they still remembered her. Besides, it was common to have portraits of deceased royals made for their family. For instance, there were at least 3 portraits of her grandmother, Louise Elisabeth of France, which were painted after her death. Why? Because her family wanted to have portraits of their beloved late relative.

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Btw I can't really believe, that there is no contemporary sources from that time who could indicate us who exactly Goya had to paint in this portait...

You're right. There are more sources from the era which could indicate this. Right now I can think of the correspondence between Queen Maria Luisa and her brother Ferdinand of Parma, which has never been published. Perhaps she wrote about the portrait in a letter to him.

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I'm don't even sure the portrait on geneall.net is really her. As you say, MA is said to habe been unattractive and this girl is cute, and I think this dress and hairstyle are not very compatible with 1790 or even later (because this girl seems to be a least 11 y.o. and if it's Maria-Amalie that would make 1790...)

The dress looks like 1790's style to me, but I could be wrong. Perhaps CountessKate knows if the dress and hairstyle are from the 1790's.

Quote
Anyway thanx for the informations about her marraiage I did'nt know she wanted to marry her cousin. If she was hurt when he prefered her sister Maria-Louisa, I don't think that it was a good consolation for Maria-Amalia to be married, instead of Luis, to his old and ugly uncle!

The author who wrote it (that Maria Amalia was quiet and melancholic and that she was hurt because Louis didn't like her) didn't provide any sources for this information, so it could be just an inference. As you know, authors sometimes do it.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 09:11:12 PM by trentk80 »
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