Author Topic: Romanov Items/Souvenirs that You Own  (Read 76063 times)

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Offline Valmont

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Re: Romanov Items/Souvenirs that You Own
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2004, 02:40:01 PM »
 Konstanin,
   I think you are getting the wrong picture, no one is telling you  your cross is a fake. Everybody is just filling in with their experience hoping  it could be of some help  in your endeavor for finding the true origins of your cross.
  What Robert is trying to say, is that sometimes they had many of this crosses in the palaces, and yours COULD be one of them. So far, the only thing you have is that your cross it is marked with an "N", but it means nothing without proof. I know you say one top official of the U.S.S.S.R. gave it to your  Grandfather, but you cannot take someone's word as a fact, you need written  evidence.
Now,  putting this aside. I think you  must only consider the facts.  If you got this cross apparised at 98,000 dollars, you should contact first the person who valued it. Ask him what factors he considered to give you that amount. He certaily must know  a lot more than you and me on the subject. And I agree with Nick and Bob, you still have a long way up the hill to  find some  REAL EVIDENCE of this piece in particular. to probe it belonged to Nicholas.
Best of luck ....

Arturo Vega-Llausás
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by valmont »
Arturo Vega-Llausás

Offline masha

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Re: Romanov Items/Souvenirs that You Own
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2004, 12:34:00 AM »
Quote
Dear Konstantin

To me on a personal level $98,000 is alot of money, I mean we paid that much for our first house - but for something like what you have, I would say that it should be worth at least that much. I would also caution you on sending anything that valuable anywhere - take it personally. Also, i would suggest you find a number of opinions, starting with some of the experts at some of the better known auction houses - such as Sotheby's and Christies. Morover, check with some of the big Jewellers - like Cartier. In other words, I'm NOT trying to disuade you from seeking expert advice in Russia (far from it) but being a research professional, I say that one always seeks out more than one source to verify accuracy. Another way to is to check your local library for any books about anitque hallmarks. I truly wish you all the best!
masha


Hi Konstantin!
My apologies for being so inarticulate and such a sloppy writer! I only just reviewed now what I first wrote to you a few days ago and noticed today my typing error - I've modified my original posting to read: "In other words, I am NOT trying to disuade you..."  I'm so sorry for the misunderstanding and please forgive me for making you so upset - it was not my intent, and as I really am not an expert in antiques, I should have really kept quiet. Also, I meant to say that I wanted to be sure that I was reading 98 thousand dollars, and not just 98 dollars. ;D
O.K. that's all from me, and please remember that I am really excited for you! Wishing you much prosperity, happiness and above all, peace of mind

Yours
Masha

Offline Valmont

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Re: Romanov Items/Souvenirs that You Own
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2004, 05:43:24 PM »
Konstantin,
   Please do not take me wrong, but by reading what you have posted, I get the idea you are kind of naive in some ways, which is not bad, but it makes you see things in an easier and simpler way than they really they are.
I did some "Homework", and I have to agree with Nick Nicholson. Unless you have complete documentation of the piece from the its earliest bill to the presentation of the cross to your Granfather, (Everything had to be documented), it will be practically impossible to probe your cross indeed belonged to Nicholas II. But do not let this dispirit you in your quest.

My best wishes and Best of luck

Arturo Vega-Llausás
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by valmont »
Arturo Vega-Llausás

Offline Valmont

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Re: Romanov Items/Souvenirs that You Own
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2004, 03:35:16 PM »
Does anyone has anymore Romanov Antique's / Souvenirs?
Arturo Vega-Llausás

Offline BobAtchison

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Re: Romanov Items/Souvenirs that You Own
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2004, 03:38:53 PM »
Konstantin:

Why would anyone do something so crazy?  It must be a child playing a joke on you!

How would anybody know a telephone number to call you on?

Bob

Offline Valmont

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Re: Romanov Items/Souvenirs that You Own
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2004, 04:12:47 PM »
It is either a joke, or we have been played by Konstantin.
Everything sounds like taken out of a novel.
1.- The finding of the unknown treasure
2.- The research to probe its origins
3.- The warning from the mystery man (Which by the way, is Russian)
The only thing missing is the dead body laying in the living room's  floor.   ;)
No offense, Konstantin, but somehow, something just does not feel right.
Nevertheless, what is a novel, but a reflect of life itself.

Arturo Vega-Llausás
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Offline _Rodger_

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Romanov Noir
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2004, 04:32:45 PM »
I expect Sam Spade will arrive on the scene momentarily in a trenchcoat, but only after the lights are mysteriously shut off and we hear a blood curdling scream . . .

;)

For the younger folks here, Sam Spade was a character out of novels written by Dashiel Hammet, and was portrayed by the late Humphrey Bogart in some wonderful 1940s movies.
WARNING!!!!  This post may be hazardous to one's sense of things.  Read with caution.

Offline Konstantin

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Re: Romanov Items/Souvenirs that You Own
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2004, 03:06:36 AM »
To Whom it May Concern

I do appologize for responding so late but i did not have time. Apparently the Russian guy that called was my grandfather himself who tried to make fun of my research of the cross. It is sad that on this site people do not trust newcomers and visitors. I do appologize if everything i wrote seemed to you a scene for a play or novel, i am sorry. I joined this discussion because i thought that i am on to something big and i thought you could help pe find the history of the cross. Now, i do not believe that you can help me. Bob, you had a dream and it became reality, let other people make their dreams reality, too. As, for the others, who wrote those terrible comments, my grandfather really surprised me with his joke  but the problem was in me because sometimes i get things too serious. I am sorry if you got the impression that i am a liar and i will proove you that i am not. I am just a guy who has something that changed his life-the cross. If you think you can help me you can reply and we can keep in touch, but do not judge people that you have never met and have never spoken too.

Respectfully
Kostadin
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Konstantin »

Offline Antonio_P.Caballer

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Re: Romanov Items/Souvenirs that You Own
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2004, 06:58:14 AM »
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Does anyone has anymore Romanov Antique's / Souvenirs?


Well, I have what i was told is a jetton from grand duchess Tatiana´s war comitte. It´s more or less heart shaped, made of silver and blue and white enamel. it has a crown on top and Tatiana´s initials. It measures 4.5 cm but as i have not any catalogue of russian medals and similars, i have never been able to see anything of the kind. Perhaps someone knows more about this things and could help me.

Antonio.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Romanov Items/Souvenirs that You Own
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2004, 07:51:01 AM »
I think I have seen those, at shops in London. But didn't know what they were. Nick is our resident expert, perhaps he would know more about it.
I have a small collection of such items, royal ciphers-in Cyrillic- with either the crown or eagle, cheaply made. some with a ribon. I was told they were sold or given away for donations. I do not think such things were actual "medals' per se.
I can't make out the ciphers, honestly, so do not pay much attention to them.
Just "cabinet curios".
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Offline Nick_Nicholson

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Re: Romanov Items/Souvenirs that You Own
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2004, 08:12:52 AM »
Hi there!

There are two types of "medals" we are discussing here. t\There are "Jetons" which were commemorative medals struck to celebrate events, or to acknowledge membership or contributions to organizations -- for example, GD Tatiana might have visted a hospital, and then given your "jeton" to every person in a particular ward, or everyone who checked out of the hospital might have recieved one.  Also, jetons were issused by private companies; the Trans-Siberian railway, for example, issued them to major investors, and when shown to the conductor, got them free passage.
These jetons can be very beautiful, and were often made by Faberge and other Russian makers.  There is a two-volume reference book which attempted to compile images of all imperial-issue jetons; I'll look for the citation.

THere are also "Znachki" which are tourist, or souvenir pieces which are often made of painted lead and other base metals, or which are like coins with loops.  These are frequently faked.  "Znatchki" remained popular in the soviet era -- anyone who went to the USSR will remember these tiny pins which were traded with avidity by students.

Best,

nick
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Nick_Nicholson »
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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Romanov Items/Souvenirs that You Own
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2004, 08:21:14 AM »
I am sure what I have are the latter. I found them at flea markets in Bulgaria, and fortunately, paid very little for them. The only thing that attracted me to them was the double eagle/split crown.  It seems odd that they would be reproduced, as they are so cheap, why bother ?
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Nick_Nicholson

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Re: Romanov Items/Souvenirs that You Own
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2004, 08:24:31 AM »
Not to sound snide, but so people like you and I will buy them.

They cost nothing to make, are easy to mark up, and are a cinch to sell.

best,

nick
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Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Romanov Items/Souvenirs that You Own
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2004, 09:06:50 AM »
Konstantin;
Please do not take offense. We don't think that anyone here thought you were lying or writing a play, or anything of the sort. I think you mis-understood several "jokes" which were not really intended to be at your expense.

The truth is, that there ARE people posting here, like Nick, who have many years of expert experience with proving the provenance of Russian Imperial items, who were trying to share with you the reality that PROVING Nicholas II owned your cross is going to be a genuinely difficult thing to do. No one is trying to crush your dream, but we all are trying to actually help you by understanding that many many people have gone down the same road you are now going down, virtually all of whom end up disappointed. Perhaps Nick can share with us how many items showed up in his office purporting to be Imperial property, and the percentage of which really WERE vs those which were not proven....

As the Admin, I assure you that EVERY person who posts here in an honest and genuine fashion is most welcome and will be treated with the same respect and courtesy. We are all free to disagree respectfully with others, or to agree, here, and all are welcome. Please continue to join in with us.

Offline Nick_Nicholson

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Re: Romanov Items/Souvenirs that You Own
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2004, 11:46:52 AM »
Dear All,


Every field has it's "holy grail." When I was at Christie's in the French Furniture department, three or four times a day I got calls from people who said that they had "a chair that belonged to Marie Antoinette."  In three years in French, only once did it turn out to be true.

When I moved to Russian, the call changed to "I have a Faberge Egg."  That was only true two or three times when someone had a miniature egg by Faberge.  Once, the specialist in the department before me received shattered eggshells in the mail, with a letter asking for an insurance appraisal, since the "Anastastia Egg" had been destroyed, and the client wanted to collect insurance.

Konstantin, I am not for once second comparing you to these people.  If your grandfather was a person of influence in Yugoslavia during the Soviet period, his chances of having recieved something of value from a Soviet Minister is certainly strong.  I sold several paintings, pieces of silver, and bits of jewelery from descendants of Egyptian, Swedish, Korean and American diplomats who worked with the Soviets -- however, in each case, the presentation was accompanied by a letter from the Societ Government explaining what the piece was, and where it came from.

Provenance is very important to the value of the piece, and pieces which are sold with provenances "by repute" or "said to be from the collections of" are many.

Good luck with your research.  I hope the Russian federation can help you.  If your cross turnes out to have been Nicholas II's baptismal cross, you will have more on your hands than an antique; you will have a relic, which should be accorded the respect it deserves.

Best,

nick
Nick Nicholson
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