Author Topic: Jewels of Empress Marie Feodorovna  (Read 64961 times)

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Offline ashdean

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Re: Jewels of Empress Marie Feodorovna
« Reply #60 on: October 27, 2010, 11:53:38 AM »
Indeed. Minny never wore a tiara after WWI, even in family gatherings.
You have evidence of this.....

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Jewels of Empress Marie Feodorovna
« Reply #61 on: October 27, 2010, 11:59:11 AM »
Have you seen one photo of her in one ?

Offline ashdean

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Re: Jewels of Empress Marie Feodorovna
« Reply #62 on: October 27, 2010, 12:24:26 PM »
Have you seen one photo of her in one ?
No...but I cannot make such a sweeping statement one way or the other.....you talk as if you had been a fly on the wall at every grand dinner!...who knows if on a very rare occassion she did not wear on belonging to her sister...
AND I have never seen any pics of her in grand evening toilette after her exile...Have you?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 12:26:40 PM by ashdean »

Offline Alexander1917

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Re: Jewels of Empress Marie Feodorovna
« Reply #63 on: October 27, 2010, 01:20:47 PM »
Have you seen one photo of her in one ?
No...but I cannot make such a sweeping statement one way or the other.....you talk as if you had been a fly on the wall at every grand dinner!...who knows if on a very rare occassion she did not wear on belonging to her sister...
AND I have never seen any pics of her in grand evening toilette after her exile...Have you?

When I think of her diary she only take part in family gatherings. not even to the Peace Parade (1919?) she took part, but looked over the wall of Marlborough House. and from those gatherings I never saw a picture of her. neither in tiara nor some other grander jewels.

Offline ashdean

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Re: Jewels of Empress Marie Feodorovna
« Reply #64 on: October 27, 2010, 02:38:43 PM »
Have you seen one photo of her in one ?
No...but I cannot make such a sweeping statement one way or the other.....you talk as if you had been a fly on the wall at every grand dinner!...who knows if on a very rare occassion she did not wear on belonging to her sister...
AND I have never seen any pics of her in grand evening toilette after her exile...Have you?

When I think of her diary she only take part in family gatherings. not even to the Peace Parade (1919?) she took part, but looked over the wall of Marlborough House. and from those gatherings I never saw a picture of her. neither in tiara nor some other grander jewels.
At least she had (for celebrations such as the royal weddings she attended) her sumpteous stands of pearls and various grand brooches etc.Strange thing about the master list of items sold...there are no rings or earrings listed...
i know MF gave her daughter Olga a fine ring in the Crimea...and that she did not always wear earrings but you would have thought there would have been at least a pair...

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Jewels of Empress Marie Feodorovna
« Reply #65 on: October 27, 2010, 03:18:35 PM »
I think if Minny had any great gems or tiara she would have worn it. The jewels sold after her death was an indication of what she had brought out. Unlike Miechen, she did not get her grand parures from Russia. Marie Paulovna the younger also got out with some jewels (including some rubies & the superb emeralds from her Aunt Ella) and Xenia had her black pearls...Indeed you do sound like a headmistress. We are discussing and not teaching a course on history, do remember that...As for what she had worn in Denmark I did get some information from the Danish side...

Offline Eddie_uk

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Re: Jewels of Empress Marie Feodorovna
« Reply #66 on: October 27, 2010, 04:52:14 PM »
Whatever....

Anyway ashdean that is an interesting point, you would think there would have been some earrings and rings and bracelets even, maybe there was but it was part of every day jewellery and kept separate?

Anyway in the interesting new book just published "The Jewels of the Romaovs" it does mention "the most important" item from the collection being a necklace of thirty two large peals which George V bought Queen Mary for 64,000 and the author thinks this is likely the necklace that Queen Mary left to the Duke of Windsor and worn by the Duchess....

The book also includes a photo of a charming diamond bracelet with a ruby, sapphire and pearl which King George bought from the Empress Alexandra's private collection, which is interesting...
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Offline ashdean

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Re: Jewels of Empress Marie Feodorovna
« Reply #67 on: October 28, 2010, 10:49:16 AM »
I think if Minny had any great gems or tiara she would have worn it. The jewels sold after her death was an indication of what she had brought out. Unlike Miechen, she did not get her grand parures from Russia. Marie Paulovna the younger also got out with some jewels (including some rubies & the superb emeralds from her Aunt Ella) and Xenia had her black pearls...Indeed you do sound like a headmistress. We are discussing and not teaching a course on history, do remember that...As for what she had worn in Denmark I did get some information from the Danish side...
AND we are NOT teaching a course on misinformation and self delusion YOU should remember THAT....and  IF yr giving people labels (or making digs at sexuality?( better to be a headmistress than a  brartish nonentity trying to be a celebrity and failing miserably!

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Jewels of Empress Marie Feodorovna
« Reply #68 on: October 28, 2010, 11:41:18 AM »
Please let's take down the tone a bit. It is important to remember the cardinal rule of the Forum--mutual respect. Sweeping generalizations will be met with calls for clarification and proof. Many posters respond well to this and do the best they can. Others have more trouble and are more defensive. If you can't back up very specific statements, please don't make them or add a proviso at least. Personal attacks and name-calling are unwarranted as well and will NOT be tolerated.

We have many experts and published authors on this Forum. When someone is regarded by the Forum as an expert in a particular field, I think they are entitled to a certain bit of deference when points of disagreement arise unless they can be proven wrong.
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Jewels of Empress Marie Feodorovna
« Reply #69 on: October 28, 2010, 11:47:31 AM »
There is a thread on Imperial Jewels which deals extensively with MF's jewelry for point of reference.
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=567.0

It contains a lot of information on MF's jewels as well as a number of photos

I had posted this way back from Vincent Meylan's book. I believe it was also used by William Clarke is his books:



List of MF's jewelry (sold upon her death by Hennels). Those bought by Queen Mary, Pss Mary (or her husband) #6,7,27, 42,47

1. 8 diamond flowers on white silk band (GBP 1200-1500) not sold
2. 8 diamond ornaments on black silk (GBP 240-350) not sold
3. sm diamond hair decoration (GBP 250-300) not sold
4. diamond banlge (GBP 700-850) withdrawn upon Xenia's request
5. diamond & ruby bangle (GBP 250-300) unsold & returned to Xenia
6. necklace w/144 small pearls (GBP 1200-1600) sold to Ld Lascelles GBP 1615
7. pearl & diamond choker w/sapphire & diamond clasp (5678-6000) sold to QM 6000
8. single-strand pearl necklace (GBP 1400-1800) unsold & return to Xenia
9. single strand pearl necklaces: 45 pearls & diamond clasp; 55 pearls; 49 pearls; 60 pearls; 66 pearls (GBP 48,000) sold for GBP 47,500
10. 33 pearl & diamond bezels, diamond clasp & strand of 32 pearls w/diamond clasp (GBP 40,000-50,000) sold for GBP 64,000
11. diamond star of the order of St Andrew (GBP 500-550) sold for GBP 474
12. diamond & pearl necklace on vlevet (GBP 20-30) unsold & returned to Xenia
13. yellow diamond hairpin (GBP 250-300) sold (no price listed)
14. white diamond hairpin (GBP 1800-2400) sold; no price listed
15. 3 hat pins w/single diamond (GBP 280-330) sold; no price listed
16. diamond feather-shaped hatpin (GBP 50-55) sold; no price listed
17. diamond & pear-shaped pearl hatpin (GBP 100-120) unsold
18. 4 tortoise-shell & diamond hairpins (GBP 3-4) left w/GDss Xenia
19. 10 hat pins w/stones (GBP 140) left w/Xenia
20. gold, diamond & spinel cross (GBP 180-250) sold; no price listed
21. ruby & diamond cross (16 sm rubies) (GBP 49) left w/Xenia
22. sapphire & diamond cross (GBP 120-130) left w/Xenia
23. diamond cross w/Savoir's head (GBP 325) left w/Xenia
24. black enamel, diamond & pearl cross (GBP 30) sold; no price listed
25. enamel cross w/pearls, rubies & diamonds (GBP 35-40) unsold; returned to Xenia
26. round pendant w/garnets & brilliants (GBP 10) left w/Xenia
27. diamond, sapphire & garnet pendant on platinum chain (GBP 10) sold to Pss Mary 6/28/29 GBP 10
28. eagle pendant w/diamonds in a gold & silver setting (GBP 15) left w/Xenia
29. diamond, pearl, ruby & sapphire bracelet (GBP 200) left w/Xenia
30. diamond bracelet w/cabochon sapphire (GBP 250) sold 7/2/29 GBP 199.10
31. gold chain bracelet w/1 turquoise & 1 diamond ((GBP 80) returned to Xenia
32. gold chain set w/rubies, diamonds & Easter eggs in gold & precious stones (GBP 350) left with Xenia
33. chain set w/cabochon sapphires & moonstones (GBP 25) left w/Xenia
34. turquoise & diamond chain (GBP 15) left with Xenia
35. mat gold chain w/9 pear-shaped pearls (GBP 10) left w/Xenia
36. small sapphire chain (GBP 10) left w/Xenia
37. pearl & diamond pendant w/a miniature & 3 pear-shaped pearls (GBP 1000-1200) sold 2/12/32 for GBP 760
38. heart-shaped diamond brooch w/crown motif (GBP 1200-1250) sold 6/26/29 GBP 1140
39. ruby & diamond brooch w/2 miniatures (GBP 175-200) sold 7/2/29 for GBP 180.10
40. diamond brooch w/2 round pearls & 1 pear-shaped pearl (GBP 7000; later revised to GBP 3500-5000) returned to Xenia 6/22/34
41. diamond & turquoise pendant (GBP 600-700) returned to Xenia
42. brooch w/oval cabochon sapphire surrounded by diamonds & pear-shaped pearl (GBP 1400-1900) sold to QM 10/3/30 GBP 2375
43. crown-shaped brooch set w/sapphires & diamonds (GBP 400-500) sold 3/28/30 GBP 474
44. large oval brooch w/sapphire surrounded by diamonds (GBP 2500-3000) sold 7/4/29 no price listed
45. lg brooch w/cabochon sapphire & 4 diamonds (GBP 2000-3000) sold /14/29 GBP 2850
46. brooch w/cabochon sapphire & diamonds (GBP 1550) sold GBP 1425
47. brooch w/large round pearl surrounded by diamond rope (GBP 550-600) sold to QM 6/12/29 GBP 555
48. diamond brooch set w/1 large diamond & 1 large pearl (GBP 1150-1700) sold 3/28/30 GBP 1187
49. pearl & diamond brooch (GBP 200-250) sold 9/28/30 GBP 142.10
50. round brooch w/pearl & diamond central motif (GBP 22) left w/Xenia
51. diamond bow w/hanging pear-shaped pearl (GBP 120) returned to Xenia 7/18/29
52. saber-shaped diamond brooch w/3 pearls (GBP 130-180) sold 9/30/30 GBP 85.10
53. diamond-studded clover w/baroque pearls (GBP 75) returned to Xenia
54. brooch set w/cabochon emerald, rubies & diamonds (GBP 2000-25000) sold 6/26/29 GBP 2137

The remaining 22 items on the list are for jewelry w/a value of less than GBP 100, mostly brooches. 18 of these pieces (est. GBP 1389) were left w/Xenia. The remaining 4 were sold for a total of GBP 141.27.
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Jewels of Empress Marie Feodorovna
« Reply #70 on: October 28, 2010, 11:49:53 AM »
Whatever....

Anyway ashdean that is an interesting point, you would think there would have been some earrings and rings and bracelets even, maybe there was but it was part of every day jewellery and kept separate?

Anyway in the interesting new book just published "The Jewels of the Romaovs" it does mention "the most important" item from the collection being a necklace of thirty two large peals which George V bought Queen Mary for 64,000 and the author thinks this is likely the necklace that Queen Mary left to the Duke of Windsor and worn by the Duchess....

The book also includes a photo of a charming diamond bracelet with a ruby, sapphire and pearl which King George bought from the Empress Alexandra's private collection, which is interesting...

It sounds like this one:

10. 33 pearl & diamond bezels, diamond clasp & strand of 32 pearls w/diamond clasp (GBP 40,000-50,000) sold for GBP 64,000


but GV wasn't listed as the buyer. Is there new info in the book?
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Jewels of Empress Marie Feodorovna
« Reply #71 on: October 28, 2010, 12:41:19 PM »
I think the book "the Jewels of the Romanovs" is written by Prince Michael of Greece, who also did a book on "Crown Jewels of Europe".

In the William Clarke book, it clearly written that Empress Marie Feodorovna did not get out with her "big pieces"(including her tiaras), she did sent someone to her palace to check but the safe was already opened...That and the recollection from one whose mother recollect the Empress in her last days made the statement that she did not wear a tiara in her last days very probable. Now with the jewelry list that did not include any tiara, that made sense.

Offline Eddie_uk

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Re: Jewels of Empress Marie Feodorovna
« Reply #72 on: October 28, 2010, 01:49:06 PM »
Jewels of the Romanovs by Stefano Papi. It has some wonderful pictures, including some interesting brooches found in MF's apartments after her escape & a photo of the jewels collected from the IF by Yurovsky while in Ekaterinburg.
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Jewels of Empress Marie Feodorovna
« Reply #73 on: October 28, 2010, 01:56:27 PM »
It must be a new book then. Thanks for the information.  :)