Author Topic: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants  (Read 232227 times)

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Offline dmitri

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #375 on: October 31, 2007, 06:49:47 AM »
Well Irene was sadly a carrier as was Alexandra. Nicholas needed a wife like Alexandra's older sister Victoria Alberta. She had far more brains and common sense than Alexandra.

Offline Tdora1

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #376 on: October 31, 2007, 07:49:20 AM »
I think one critical point here would be the belief in the absolute authority of the Tsar. Tenuous belief in an outdated and unwieldy autocracy was a major factor in Alix's fervent meddling and in the ultimate tragedy. VMH was certainly very democratic for a royal of her times and Irene always struck me as an intelligent-enough pragmatist. Couple with the religious factor (and Irene would NOT have converted to Orthodoxy - see her reaction to Ella) and Alix's rather singular needy personality...I'd say almost anyone else would have been a 'better' Tsarina in retrospect. Marie of Edinburgh/Romania not included  ;)
Acts of injustice done
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In history lie like bones, each one.

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Offline dmitri

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #377 on: October 31, 2007, 09:39:18 AM »
Well at least Marie wouldn't have fallen for Rasputin. She also was a patriot and was good for Romania during ww1 unlike Alexandra.

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #378 on: October 31, 2007, 09:49:54 AM »
All reasonable and interesting points about these women as WIVES of the Tsar, but is there still a suggestion here that ANY wife of NII would have had the power, position, audience, influence etc to actually have affected the outcome of the Romanovs? NII would still have been who he was, and as we see today in politics, business, education, etc, no matter how many qualified and skilled people may be in place UNDER a totally incompetent leader or CEO, it VERY hard to have a positive result.
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Offline Adagietto

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #379 on: October 31, 2007, 04:44:37 PM »
Yes, I would agree with you absolutely on that point, I simply can't believe that it would have made a crucial difference if NII, being of such a character as he was and living in such circumstances as he did, had had the wisest of women as his wife! Which is not to say that Alexandra didn't make a bad situation worse.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #380 on: October 31, 2007, 09:09:10 PM »
But Alexandra DID made a bad situation worse...Her reliance on Rasputin in government appointment made the situation worse when it was vital that stability in Russia was needed for Russia to fight the war. It also broke the solarity of the Imperial Family that Sasha and Minnie had maintained throught out their reign.  >:(

Offline Helen

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #381 on: November 01, 2007, 02:18:40 AM »
 ??? Solidarity that Sasha and Minnie had maintained? There wasn't any real solidarity in the family under Alexander III either. Many authors have commented on the strained relations with the Michailovichi. And the way Miechen started to spread unkind stories about Maria Feodorovna right after Alexander III's death shows that any semblance of solidarity from the Vladimirovichi under Alexander III was jus that, a semblance.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 02:20:43 AM by Helen »
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"  -  http://www.bod.de/index.php?id=296&objk_
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #382 on: November 01, 2007, 04:04:16 AM »
True...Although under Alexander III, he kept them under check. The fact that Minnie was beloved by the public and didn't put a foot wrong automatically sidelined Vladimir and Michen. however under Nicky & Alicky, they openly rebelled. They were supported by those who were disatisfied with the meddling and unpopular Empress... :(

Offline Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #383 on: November 01, 2007, 06:10:08 AM »
sidelined Vladimir and Michen. They were supported by those who were disatisfied with the meddling and unpopular Empress... :(

...thus the Canaille
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Offline Helen

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #384 on: November 01, 2007, 07:29:30 AM »
Making a pretence of family solidarity or stability by keeping people 'in check' has never solved anything. In this case, it rather worked as a pressure cooker. The fact that the mere arrival on the scene of a young, shy and honest woman who stood by her principles and values sufficed to make the soap bubble of soldiarity burst, revealing dissension and opportunism in the Romanov family and making family members 'rebel' literally almost overnight once Alexander III was gone, only proves how unstable the situation really was under Alexander III and Maria Feodorovna.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 07:43:24 AM by Helen »
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"  -  http://www.bod.de/index.php?id=296&objk_
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #385 on: November 01, 2007, 09:56:49 AM »
I agree with Helen completely; well put. And after years of in-fighting, what in the end destroyed the Romanovs and the nation was the war. whoever the czar's wife would have been would not have diverted this mistake, in fact, Alexandra should have been, as a German, able to help forge a friendship with Germany but she couldn't even keep on good terms with her cousin Willy..and expect her to influence an entire nation? Was never in the cards. Nor could it have been for anyone else, really. thanks!
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Offline lori_c

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #386 on: November 01, 2007, 12:02:54 PM »
True enough. War seemed to be the common denominator and main ingredient in toppling many thrones besides Russia.  After 1918, not many were left standing.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #387 on: November 01, 2007, 09:37:07 PM »
Alicky was not a stable woman period...Irene had more sense than her.  :(

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #388 on: November 02, 2007, 11:47:40 AM »
Yes, Irene was more sensible, stable, capable and used 'control' in more positive ways than her sister.

I would agree that had Nicky married Irene instead of Alix, Irene may have been able to engender a more positive public opinion of the monarchy and herself, perhaps. Surely, Minnie and her sister Alexandra in England were able to purposefully sow seeds of dislike about Germany and Germans which did affect public opinion in a negative way which likely had some effect on how willing the public ultimately was to accept war. Likewise, Irene as tsarina may have had some impact in a more positive direction, but what would that have been? If she took a more pro-russian people approach, that would not have averted the war and the end would have been what it was. If she took a pro-German alliance approach, it would have run smack up against her mother in law and ministers, and she would have been sidelined...again the war would have occurred regardless.

the war and its never ending misery did them in.
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Re: Prince Henry (Heinrich) of Prussia, his family and descendants
« Reply #389 on: November 03, 2007, 04:14:54 PM »
I defantly think, it would have been better for Irene to be tsarina than Alix becuase she has more common sence than her and she would have put a much more positive impact for Russia. Alix's problem was that she could not get herself together. Sadly Alix realy did not have a good relationship with neither with the kaiser and the Russian court. It is true, that her relationship with Rasputin did make things more worse, many pesants starting protesting and blaming her for everything. Irene did'nt even like Rasputin.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2007, 04:21:29 PM by Elizabeth~Princess »