Author Topic: Anne Boleyn  (Read 274401 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

dolgoruky18

  • Guest
Re: Anne Boleyn
« Reply #180 on: September 21, 2007, 04:06:10 PM »
Just a few details about Anne Boleyn  -  who was, as posters have been saying, a fascinating and enigmatic woman.

Date of birth: There seems to be no absolute agreement on this. Anytime from 1501-1509. The year 1507 seems to be a current favourite.

Background: Although the Boleyns were of mercantile origin in the male line, they were highly upwardly mobile, Anne's father married a Duke's daughter (Norfolk), his father an Earl's daughter (Ormonde) and his father a Baron's daughter. She was, in fact descended from King Edward I.

Siblings: Again there is no agreement as to the order of birth of Anne's surviving brother and sister. Both Mary and Anne spent time at the French Court, but there is no direct evidence as to when they went, how old they were or who educated them. It is thought that Anne was brought up with the children of Queen Claude, the wife of Francis I. Mary left France under a cloud. She had, it seems, been the mistress of several men including King Francis who referred to her in Italian as "una grandissima ribalda... infama sopra tutte". She had, in short become a laughing stock even at that immoral Court. She became Henry's mistress and was quickly married off to William Carey, a Gentleman of the King' Chamber. The son she bore, Henry Carey, Lord Hunsdon, was widely believed to be Henry VIII's.

There were ugly rumours that Henry and Anne's mother had been lovers  -  and that Anne was his own daughter. Henry denied the allegation. He was not altogether believed.

Henry changed the name of all the Boleyns to "Rochford" before creating Anne Marquess of Pembroke in her own right.

Anne's fall: A fairly recent study of Anne has put forward a persuasive theory that she gave birth to a grossly deformed foetus in the weeks before her arrest and that this was the basis for the witchcraft/incest charge.

Anne's skeleton was uncovered along with many other Tudor victims when Queen Victoria ordered repairs on the Chapel of St. Peter ad Vincula within the Tower in the 1870s. It was described as "very delicate". There was absolutely no indication of a sixth finger on either hand. She was reburied by Katherine Howard before the altar.

Offline dmitri

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2018
    • View Profile
Re: Anne Boleyn
« Reply #181 on: September 22, 2007, 05:08:54 AM »
I guess the one great sadness was that Anne never gave birth to a son who lived. Had she done this her life would have been far more secure. There probably would have never been six wives of Henry VIII either. Sadly in those days it was not known that the male contributed to the sex of the child and it was not the fault of the female. Instead she was blamed for not being able to give Henry a son.

Offline FaithWhiteRose

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 369
    • View Profile
Re: Anne Boleyn
« Reply #182 on: September 22, 2007, 02:27:48 PM »
True. She also was not fit to play the part of the docile, submissive wife, but rather the loving mistress, and this added to Henry's annoyance. I guess Henry felt more secure when both of them were married, and was free to do whatever he could with her, something Anne did not appreciate.

Offline dmitri

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2018
    • View Profile
Re: Anne Boleyn
« Reply #183 on: September 22, 2007, 04:47:53 PM »
I think Anne is more remembered even though her end was gruesome compared to Jane Seymour. Seymour is remembered as the woman who carried on an affair when Henry was married to Jane and then shamelessly got married to him basically straight after Anne's head came off. I never felt sorry for Jane when she died just after childbirth. It seemed rather like revenge from on high. Anne had the last laugh from heaven as Jane's on was sickly and did not last very long and Elizabeth was a great Queen. She was the son Henry wanted.

Offline FaithWhiteRose

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 369
    • View Profile
Re: Anne Boleyn
« Reply #184 on: September 22, 2007, 08:05:13 PM »
Exactly. I've never liked Jane Seymour either because of what she did to Anne. She was also the complete opposite of black-eyed, beautiful and proud Anne Boleyn, but meek, blond, and undesirable. She pretty much copied Anne by telling Henry there was no way she was going to submit to being his mistress.

Offline Mari

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 991
    • View Profile
Re: Anne Boleyn
« Reply #185 on: September 23, 2007, 03:57:53 AM »
"Anne Boleyn as a Witch," by Brian A. Pavlac.

Quote
Anne Boleyn's reputation for being a witch has been unfairly held against her.  In trying to find grounds to incriminate her, King Henry claimed that she had used witchcraft to make him fall in love with her.  He also said he feared that she would harm him with poison -- a common accusation against witches.  Her enemies also repeated charges of physical deformity, such as that she was too tall, had a sixth finger (which was probably just an extra fingernail), and had strange warts and growths on her body that could have been witch's teats.  The allegedly deformed male fetus of her last birth in 1536 was also used against her.  While raised as an issue at first, witchcraft did not end up among the charges used by the court which found her guilty of treason in conspiracy with her alleged lovers (including her brother).  That the first English law against witchcraft was passed just a few years after her trial, in 1542, reflects the growing fears about witches in England, in which Anne was also ensnared.  On Anne and witchcraft, see especially the book by Warnicke. "Anne Boleyn as a Witch,"  this is a quote from Brian A. Pavlac.

Witches were also accused of afflicting men, even their spouses with impotence, an act that was from the mid-twelfth century recognized by the canon law as a marriage impediment. The King reportedly confided to Richmond that Anne had planned to poison
both Mary and him (the Duke) of Richmond and displayed to the Bishop of Carlisle a tragedy about her death that he had allegedly written prior to her arrest. According to Warnicke the shock of a deformed fetus might have caused Henry impotence and she puts this forward "that Henry genuinely believed Anne guilty of the crimes"  Is there any proof that Anne tried to poison anyone? Also since Witchcraft was not used among her many charges according to Pavlac does anyone think Henry really believed all this?

Offline FaithWhiteRose

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 369
    • View Profile
Re: Anne Boleyn
« Reply #186 on: September 23, 2007, 10:25:30 AM »
Henry wanted to get rid of Anne just because she could not give him a son, but started believing all the witch/incest/adultery accusations Anne was innocent of a little, then a bit more, till he fervently believed in all of this, though he knew that deep inside none of this was true.

Offline dmitri

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2018
    • View Profile
Re: Anne Boleyn
« Reply #187 on: September 23, 2007, 05:21:14 PM »
Poor Anne was innocent and sent to the block to die so that Henry VIII could marry Jane Seymour. Catherine of Aragon got off lightly.

Offline FaithWhiteRose

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 369
    • View Profile
Re: Anne Boleyn
« Reply #188 on: September 24, 2007, 04:14:21 PM »
oh, Katherine did not get off THAT lightly. She was seperated from her daughter who was tormented by Anne daily and sent to go from house to house, until she was sent to somewhere so worst that her poor old body eventually failed to live. Anne, of course, was innocent of the charges against her that were undoubtedly exaggerated. But that still does not mean that Anne Boleyn was a saint. She was haughty and all the people of England hated her and supported Katherine. Mary Tudor, who would become Mary I, or, more appropriately called "Bloody Mary", was tormented by Anne to a state that was pitiful, despite the deeds the princess-turned-bastard would do in the future.

Offline Kurt Steiner

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 273
    • View Profile
Re: Anne Boleyn
« Reply #189 on: September 25, 2007, 06:56:02 AM »
Anne Boleyn wasn't blameless, of course. Her bullying Mary wasn't fair, but, somehow, understable -after all, Katharine has given her a hard time, so to speak. Being said that, I think that Anne was a bit revengeful - ask Wolsey, for instance- and that helped to the bad consideration that some people had of her. She made mistakes that helped to her downfall. Nevertheless, I cannot blame her, I'm afraid...

Offline Helen_Azar

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 7472
  • Coming up Fall 2015: Tatiana's diaries and letters
    • View Profile
    • War-time diaries of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna Romanov
Re: Anne Boleyn
« Reply #190 on: September 25, 2007, 12:37:23 PM »
Anne Boleyn wasn't blameless, of course. Her bullying Mary wasn't fair, but, somehow, understable -after all, Katharine has given her a hard time, so to speak. Being said that, I think that Anne was a bit revengeful - ask Wolsey, for instance- and that helped to the bad consideration that some people had of her. She made mistakes that helped to her downfall. Nevertheless, I cannot blame her, I'm afraid...

In the current age of psycho-babble, we may even go as far as saying that this was her way of dealing with pressures she was under - she was lashing out. And believe me, she was under a lot of emotional pressure!

Offline anneboleyn1313

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Anne Boleyn
« Reply #191 on: December 17, 2007, 08:25:16 PM »
Although Anne Boleyn is not be the most well-liked or admired of Henry's wives, to me she is  probably the most interesting and certainly one of the most intelligent of the six.    


Anne Boleyn is my personal favorite. She was independant and stood for herself when she was abandoned. I find myself kind of wanting to be like her  :-[

Could we maybe have a debate on her birth date? I want to know what others think she was born. I personally think she was  born in 1500.

Offline Kimberly

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 3143
  • Loyaulte me lie
    • View Profile
Re: Anne Boleyn
« Reply #192 on: December 18, 2007, 02:26:59 AM »
Hi Anneboleyn 1313 and welcome to the forum. We have already debated her birth date..here. Perhaps you would like to add something.
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,4072.0.html
Member of the Richard III Society

Offline anneboleyn1313

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Anne Boleyn
« Reply #193 on: December 18, 2007, 05:55:58 PM »
Oh, sorry, I will have to check it out. :)

I


Offline Kimberly

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 3143
  • Loyaulte me lie
    • View Profile
Re: Anne Boleyn
« Reply #194 on: December 19, 2007, 01:16:18 AM »
Oh, no need to apologise, it is a few pages back.xxx
Member of the Richard III Society