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Topic: Anne Boleyn  (Read 160205 times)
Reply #15
« on: July 17, 2005, 11:07:58 AM »
lexi4 Offline
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Thank you Helen. Please do post pictures of the inside of the castle. I would love to see them.
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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"
Reply #16
« on: July 17, 2005, 01:13:19 PM »
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Hi there,I have always pondered wether Anne was RH  negative so that after the birth of a first healthy child she became "sensitised" and her blood cells "attacked" every foetus she carried from then on. So she never really stood a chance. Of course,these days RH negative mums get an injection of Anti- D after the birth  of each child thus preventing the problem. ( well thats my two penny worth anyway)
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Reply #17
« on: July 17, 2005, 02:17:39 PM »
lexi4 Offline
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Interesting theory Kimberly. I think it is possible that this was the case.
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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"
Reply #18
« on: July 17, 2005, 03:21:45 PM »
Helen_Azar Offline
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Hever Castle interiors

Entrance Hall:


Drawing Room:


Dining Room:


Anne Boleyn's Books of Hours Room:


Henry VIII Room:
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Reply #19
« on: July 17, 2005, 03:25:12 PM »
Lanie Offline
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Thanks for the pictures of Hever Castle, Helen!  Is the furniture from the 1500s, or is it later or just re-created? Smiley  I'm curious as to what things would have looked like in Anne's time.
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Reply #20
« on: July 17, 2005, 03:25:19 PM »
lexi4 Offline
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Thank you Helen.
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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"
Reply #21
« on: July 17, 2005, 03:25:47 PM »
Arianwen Offline
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I agree with you, Helen. Indeed, it's not clear to me to what extent the cruel treatment of Catherine and Mary was really the fault of Anne and how much of it should be laid directly at Henry's door. Just to give one example, Anne supposedly demanded from Catherine of Aragon her daughter Mary's christening robe for Elizabeth's christening. But for all we know, Anne made this demand at Henry's insistence. What is telling to me is that after Anne's execution, Mary's situation, rather than immediately improving, actually worsened, to the point where the Spanish ambassador, Chapuys, feared for her life. It was because the threat of imminent execution hung over her head that Mary finally caved into her father's demands and signed the document proclaiming Henry Supreme Head of the Church of England and herself a bastard. (As I recall the pope gave Mary a special dispensation for signing this document that rendered it null and void in the eyes of the Catholic Church.)

So I am inclined to give Anne the benefit of the doubt in her treatment of Mary. I think Henry showed time and time again throughout his reign that he was an exceedingly cruel man who never hesitated to harm those around him if they became obstacles in his path. I also believe that much of Anne's volatility was not because of her personality but because she had to function under so much stress, first during the six-year struggle for the divorce, and afterwards, during the three-year struggle to produce a male heir. It's not surprising that she failed in the latter attempt. I, too, am convinced that Henry had some sort of genetic problem that made it virtually impossible for him to father healthy sons, but also, given the burden of expectations placed on Anne, it doesn't surprise me that she could not carry a second child to term.


I'm going to make board history on this one...I agree completely. Grin Wink Hope you're having a lovely trip abroad, luv!

Regards,
Arianwen
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Reply #22
« on: July 17, 2005, 03:27:25 PM »
Arianwen Offline
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Hi there,I have always pondered wether Anne was RH  negative so that after the birth of a first healthy child she became "sensitised" and her blood cells "attacked" every foetus she carried from then on. So she never really stood a chance. Of course,these days RH negative mums get an injection of Anti- D after the birth  of each child thus preventing the problem. ( well thats my two penny worth anyway)


I had the exact same theory, but never a way to prove it. I know agglutination during pregnancy results in termination, so it would only make sense...glad to know I'm not alone on this one!

Regards,
Arianwen
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Reply #23
« on: July 17, 2005, 03:29:45 PM »
Arianwen Offline
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Well, Henry's mistress Elizabeth Blount gave birth to a boy who was acknowledged as his son. Anne's sister Mary was a one time mistress of Henry's too, but whether she had a child by him varies from source to source. Some say yes, her first child was Henry's, others say it was her husband's... Either way, Henry never officially acknowledged Mary's child as his. We'll never know I suppose.


I've heard four different possibilities on Mary Boleyn Carey's children...

1) Both children were Henry VIII's.

2) Only the first child was William Carey's.

3) Both children were William Carey's.

4) The first child was Henry's, the second William Carey's.

I hear MUCH more of Options #1 and #2, with a LOT more frequency on #1.

Regards,
Arianwen
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Reply #24
« on: July 17, 2005, 03:44:46 PM »
Arianwen Offline
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Helen, I find myself agreeing completely with your thoughts about Anne. She tends to be a favourite among the wives, beating Catherine of Aragon by a surprising margin, and among our Six Wives Club, I was Anne. Grin

My thoughts are these: Anne's choice was Harry Percy, and he wanted her. I tend to think they were at least lovers, if not pre-contracted somehow, which is what Harry Percy meant about 'having gone too far before too many honourable witnesses, that he knew not how to withdraw himself'. The king, Wolsey, and Daddy the Earl put their collective feet down, Percy was whisked away, and Anne sent off to Hever. She probably held one bloody huge grudge, especially when Percy was married off to Mary Talbot.

Then, Henry starts making his moves. I agree that Anne was basically trying to get him angry enough to leave her alone, but not angry enough to retaliate against her family. This just enthralled him, and Anne realised she wasn't going to get out of it that easily. Then, she says she won't be his mistress, only his wife, thinking that's never going to happen, or that she refuses to just be cast aside like her sister, that if she's going to have to sleep with Henry, she's going to look out for her future children, and making him marry her is the best way.

Finally, in 1532, matters hit the boiling point with the Calais trip. Anne gives in and gets pregnant sometime in December. At that point, her only out is gone. She can't claim a pre-contract with Percy, despite Mary Talbot claiming one to get out of her marriage, so Anne says there are no impediments, and Henry rushes the divorce along to marry Anne in secret on or around 25 January 1533. The marriage is kept secret for a few months, until Anne comes out with her famous 'apples' comments, and until Easter, when for the first time, congregations are told to pray for 'Queen Anne'. Now, as long as she bears a son, she's safe.

7 September 1533. Elizabeth is born, and Henry is suprisingly not upset. He shows her off proudly, says that they'll have sons eventually, and saves face. Then, the miscarriages begin, but as long as Catherine of Aragon is alive, Henry can't get rid of Anne. January of 1536 is really when the end comes, because in addition to Catherine's death, Anne has her last miscarriage, claimed to have been a boy. Also, Jane Seymour has entered the scene. Anne is arrested in the beginning of May, and executed on 19 May. Henry and Jane are betrothed the next day and married on 30 May.

I don't think the only reason Henry executed Anne was because she failed to bear a son. I think it was also because Anne was her own person, and he didn't 'own' her. He had never really conquered her, and he couldn't stand for that. He had to be the master, she had to be completely dominated by him, and she wasn't. For that, in Henry's eyes, she deserved to die.


Arianwen as Anne Boleyn

Regards,
Arianwen
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Reply #25
« on: July 17, 2005, 04:08:13 PM »
Prince_Lieven Offline
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Wow, great assessment Arianwen! Everything you say is right! Do you agree that Anne was a bit too volitile with Henry with regard to his affairs, and that a more meek stance would have been better?

P.S:  that shade of purple is definitely your colour! : - )
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Reply #26
« on: July 17, 2005, 06:14:01 PM »
Arianwen Offline
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Wow, great assessment Arianwen! Everything you say is right!


Thanks! It's just my opinion, at least.

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Do you agree that Anne was a bit too volitile with Henry with regard to his affairs, and that a more meek stance would have been better?


I think that perhaps turning a blind eye would have slowed things down, but once Catherine was dead, Jane entered the picture, and Anne miscarried her son, there was no hope for her. Being that meek would have meant changing who she was, something she didn't seem the type to do for anyone.

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P.S:  that shade of purple is definitely your colour! : - )


Thanks! Grin And actually, it's burgundy, slightly more red than purple. The camera just turned it a brownish-purple.

Regards,
Arianwen
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Reply #27
« on: July 18, 2005, 02:53:28 AM »
Kimberly Offline
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It was Anne's volitility and sexual magnetism that surely drew Henry towards her. it would (imho) have been against her very nature to have become meek and totally submissive. Jane Seymour played a clever game by being the opposite of Anne -White to Anne's black. Honey to Anne's vinegar.Poor Anne, she could see what was coming but, but she was absolutely powerless to stop it-no amount of feigned meekness on her part would produce the boy who would be her saviour.
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Reply #28
« on: July 18, 2005, 02:57:39 AM »
Kimberly Offline
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Arianwen, wow, how creative you are, I cannot sew a button on to save my life...... mind you i am a mighty fine cook so my lot say they won'put me out to pasture just yet. Grin
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Reply #29
« on: July 18, 2005, 08:45:00 AM »
Martyn Offline
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Nice gown Arianwen but it should really have a visible petticoat, or forepart!  (just kidding...it looks very good)

Anne is a complex woman and perhaps the most colourful of all the wives.  Her time at the French court may well have give her a gloss and sophistication that contrasted with the sober and pious ways of his first wife, and with that of the other ladies at the English court.

Do we really think that Anne had no aspirations to be queen?  That she was trapped into marrying Henry?
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