Author Topic: Re: Lady Jane Grey  (Read 48755 times)

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Offline ilyala

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Re: Lady Jane Grey
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2005, 01:20:03 PM »
frances was born in 1518.

second of all, the simple fact that lady jane was not executed until her father tried to raise an army to reinstall her is proof enough that she was hesitant of the execution. had she wanted to execute her she would have done it immediately.
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Offline Silja

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Re: Lady Jane Grey
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2005, 10:22:32 AM »
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Is it true that Mary I was hesitant, and in fact openly did not want to execute her cousin Lady Jane Grey, or is this just historical revisionism?   What evidence would exist today to examine?   Did Mary ever make a statement.
.  


According to Alison Weir "The ambassadors then counselled Mary once more to have Jane Grey executed, but still she would not hear of it. jane and her husband would remain in the Tower, she said, until such time as it was safe to grant them pardons and release them. They would be tried and condemned, as a matter of form, but her conscience would not permit her to put them to death, even though they had technically committed treason. Renard argued that this was unwise, and Gardiner was of the same opinion, but Mary heeded neither of them. In fact, she had been very impressed by a lengthy letter sent her by Jane on 5 August, giving a full and honest account of her nine days' reign without making too many excuses for herself. What came across very clearly to the Queen was that Jane had had no choice in in the matter, even though she had admitted that she had done wrong in accepting the crown and 'was ashamed to ask pardon for such a crime'. ... The Queen would only assure Renard that she would be watchful in case Lady Jane became the focus of any further conspiracy, and would ensure that the realm was quiet before she set her free, at which the ambassador expressed the hope that she would not regret such extraordinary clemency (Children of England, p.200f.)

Offline Kimberly

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Re: Lady Jane Grey
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2005, 02:44:21 PM »
No idea, but I would guess so. A young, healthy couple, lets hope they had a little happiness together, their lives were tragically short. (of course, they could have loathed each other). ;)
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Lady Jane Grey
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2005, 03:04:59 PM »
Blanche, if they married in May1553 and died in february 1554, they weren't together a year. then, were they together after Jane was deposed-July 1553? If they weren't, then that only gave them a couple of months together. Sometimes it takes a while to conceive a child. (and some people have "honeymoon babies" ooops  ;D)
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Offline emeraldeyes

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Re: Lady Jane Grey
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2005, 03:27:39 PM »
Has anyone seen the movie that was made some time ago with Helena Bonham-Carter as Lady Jane?  If memory serves it was quite good, although  I can't remember how historically accurate it was.  
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Lady Jane Grey
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2005, 03:43:11 PM »
I never seen it, but I heard it was centered around Jane and Guilford's tragic love story - doesn't sound very accurate. For all we know they hated each other.
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Offline Tsarfan

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Re: Lady Jane Grey
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2005, 04:36:16 PM »
The movie is entertaining but hardly historically accurate.  If the scriptwriter is to be believed, Queen Jane would have attempted to create Europe's first socialist state had she been left to rule by her own lights.  The silly scene in which she and Dudley break glass after glass as they ridicule point-by-point all the tenets of the property-holding classes in England just beggars description.

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Re: Lady Jane Grey
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2005, 06:25:49 PM »
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The movie is entertaining but hardly historically accurate.  If the scriptwriter is to be believed, Queen Jane would have attempted to create Europe's first socialist state had she been left to rule by her own lights.  The silly scene in which she and Dudley break glass after glass as they ridicule point-by-point all the tenets of the property-holding classes in England just beggars description.



Unfortunately Hollywood takes those liberties that should often best be advised against, such Mary of Guise appearing as a wanton woman and dying after a night in bed with Sir Francis Walsingham, being a bit over the top, actually a very well done film though.

Even though those liberties like those in Lady Jane Grey are a bit hard to swallow
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Mgmstl »

Offline emeraldeyes

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Re: Lady Jane Grey
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2005, 08:55:53 PM »
Although the studio is Paramount, I always thought the film was English-made. ???
An intelligent Hell would be better than a stupid paradise.  - Victor Hugo


Offline Tsarfan

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Re: Lady Jane Grey
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2005, 09:30:28 AM »
I can understand how having a first exposure to Helena Bonham-Carter in Lady Jane might put you off her for all time.  However, I feel the fault for this little travesty of history lies more with the director and scriptwriter than with the actress.

Bonham-Carter has been quite good in her work with Merchant and Ivory, and those films are just too good to miss on her account.  Also, I have seen her in some U.S. productions where she convincingly shed every shred of her English accent.  She's no Meryl Streep (who is?) . . . but she ain't too bad.

Offline jehan

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Re: Lady Jane Grey
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2005, 09:38:01 AM »
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I found the film a bit rubbish and thats the first ever film I've seen of Helena Bonham-Carter act in... when I know she's in any film I don't bother watching it because it reminds me that its going to be another rubbish film


I'm a stickler for reasonable historical accuracy in film (don't get me started on "Braveheart! ;)), but I have to admit I liked "Lady Jane".

I know that the love story wasn't true- Jane and Guildford never did get along (although to answer another question on this thread, according to several bios about her, the marriage WAS consummated, although not until a few months after the wedding), and the whole reforming England idea didn't happen either.  But the underlying essentials ARE true- that in Tudor times children were essentially political pawns in the hands of their elders- to be used ruthlessly,with no choice as to their lives or fates, and that point was made very well.

Also the costumes and sets are bang-on accurate, as is the music.  The portrayals are good- Jane's parents, Jane herself, Cary Elwes as Guilford (and the thigh-high boots didn't hurt his performance either !!)  I thought that the portrayal of Queen Mary was excellent too- showing her as a woman in love with a portrait of her soon-to-be husband  and reluctant to condemn Jane, when a lesser movie would have made her a villain.  The portrayal of the kindly Dr Feckenham is really good (some of the dialogue between him and Jane is taken straight from historical records).

Do you really think that all of Helena B-C's film are rubbish?  She was really good in "A Room with a View", "Margaret's Museum", Howard's End- hardly bad films, any of them.  I even liked her portrayal of Ophelia in Mel Gibson's Hamlet- she put a spin on the character I had never seen before. (He "roses for remembrance" speech was rather chilling, rather than the usual feyness other actresses have brought to the role, I thought)
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Offline jehan

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Re: Lady Jane Grey
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2005, 05:09:35 PM »
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In which bios have you read that in? there is no bio I've ever read mentioning that the marriage was ever consummated


Hester Chapman "Lady Jane Grey" Pan Books 1972 p76

Mary Luke "The Nine Days Queen" William Morrow 1986 pp244-245

I know of at least one other I read years ago, but I don't own it and don't remember the author, so I can't cite it here.

Edited- Also Alison Weir "Children  of England" Random House 1996 p 145

(In fact I haven't read a bio that states it was NOT consummated!)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by jehan »
Forget your perfect offering
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That's how the light gets in. 
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Offline Arianwen

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Re: Lady Jane Grey
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2005, 05:47:42 PM »
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In which bios have you read that in? there is no bio I've ever read mentioning that the marriage was ever consummated


I've read it in the same sources as jehan. At first, Jane didn't live with her husband, but once she did, the marriage was consummated (their parents pretty much forced them).

As for 'Lady Jane', her 'love affair' with Guildford is what I would have liked for her, after such a difficult childhood and with such a short adulthood, but I don't believe it was true for one moment. For most of it, they did a bang-up job with the accuracy, giving really fair portrayals of even the 'bad guys', but they did turn it into a romance. As for Jane wanting children not to be beaten but loved, who says that's not accurate? Do I think it was a point of legislation? No. She was too firmly under the control of the council until they betrayed her.

While I think she was a victim, I think she was willingly duped. Dudley told her she was meant to be queen, that it was a sign from God to preserve Protestantism, and she bought it, but I still don't think she wanted the crown. Jane had a tendency to be pigheaded, as all we intellectuals can be ;), but she showed a lack of tolerance that mirrors her cousin Mary's.

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Offline Kimberly

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Re: Lady Jane Grey
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2005, 04:42:33 AM »
Re the lack of tolerance issue. I think that if things had been different and Jane had continued as Queen, she would have gone down in history as "Bloody Jane"with a mass (pardon the pun) purging of Catholics.
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bluetoria

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Re: Lady Jane Grey
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2005, 06:44:28 AM »
This wonderful painting by Delaroche depicts her execution: