Author Topic: The Grimaldi's of Monaco  (Read 222371 times)

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Offline edubs31

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Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco
« Reply #570 on: August 30, 2012, 11:26:59 PM »
Her ladylike manners are not very American. 

Oh thank you for the insult to all of us American women! Believe it or not, some of DO know how to behavior in 'polite society' and not act like refugees from Jersey Shore!

Yes and even if that was true I'm proud to say of my fellow females that as Laurel Thatcher Ulrich once suggested, "well behaved women seldom make history."

Perhaps a little less "lady" is an acceptable trade for a little more "woman"?
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco
« Reply #571 on: September 01, 2012, 11:38:28 AM »
Yes. even in Hollywood at the time they remarked that Grace's ladylike ways was a rarity. I did not create that myself. That was in the 1950's. I think Real Housewives of ___ is a real representation of American women TODAY . I am sad to say. The two American women I think on top of the class were Princess Grace of Monaco & Jackie Kennedy.

Offline Grace

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Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco
« Reply #572 on: September 01, 2012, 05:53:29 PM »
I don't think any television program can represent half the population of any given country, however large or small.  I saw a British documentary (though I didn't watch it all) on police dealing with drunken young women staggering around the streets on Friday and Saturday nights in various cities.  It was appalling but I didn't believe that that was representative of British women in general, even young ones, so I do think you're mistaken, Eric.


Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco
« Reply #573 on: September 02, 2012, 07:20:04 AM »
So true Grace.  I have seen a young woman staggereing around London, bar hopping along with friends. Many had to be picked up after falling flat on her face in the sidwalk.
 And anyplace whhere the laies have their hen nights, the gals get plastered.  I am sure it happens in San Francisco as well, I just do not see it because  do not go to the party areas.
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco
« Reply #574 on: September 02, 2012, 09:40:22 AM »
I think we are talking about the classiness of Grace Kelly and how rare that special quality was. I am not going to pull all women down to the gutter for it. Grace Kelly was born first generation into wealth and privilege. Her father was a self made man and her mother a swimming teacher. Grace alone of the family radiated that kind of magic and she herself created. As family background, she was in the same type of background as Kim Kardashian (wealthy lawyer father who was close to O J Simpson), but what a difference in class ! The Real Housewives of _________ also lived in luxury, but no class.  In facr Grace sister Lizane once said "She had that special quality that if we could extract it and market it like perfume, it could make millions"

Offline Maria the Beautiful

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Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco
« Reply #575 on: September 02, 2012, 06:06:59 PM »
 Eric,  you did pull all American women down into the gutter by your statement, then made it worse by insinuating that all American women mirror the low class behavior that is portrayed on so many TV shows these days which is just not true.   You shouldn't be surprised that you were called out for it.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco
« Reply #576 on: September 02, 2012, 07:18:32 PM »
No I did not. I just said that Grace was unusual in her "lady like manner". I am not responsible for what they interpreted my meaning. If you read bios of Grace Kelly, she completely "created" herself. Her style, her almost British accent (whom she called her "stage accent") , her use of kid gloves all became part of the package. Even with all that Princess Margret considered her "only a movie star" and the British royals stayed away from her wedding to Prince Rainier. Many years later, Princess Grace of Monaco became the close friend of Queen Victoria Eugenia of Spain (King Juan Carlos's grandmother), Sir Winston Churchill, Josephine Baker (fellow American decorated by the French after WW II) and Prince Charles and Lady Diana Spencer. I still believe that she was a "unique" American, who made a successful transition and fully accepted into the exclusive club of European royalty. Hard to imagine that Prince Rainier also considered Marilyn Monroe for the job...

Offline Paul

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Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco
« Reply #577 on: September 02, 2012, 10:37:37 PM »
I still believe that she was a "unique" American, who made a successful transition and fully accepted into the exclusive club of European royalty.

Well said, Eric, and right on target! Princess Grace was, indeed 'one of a kind'. We won't see another like her in our lifetime.
The only real possession you'll ever have is your character.
Tom Wolfe
US author & journalist (1931 - )

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco
« Reply #578 on: September 03, 2012, 01:16:55 PM »
Indeed. God break the mold when he created her.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco
« Reply #579 on: September 03, 2012, 07:09:39 PM »
I sitll find your comments incredibly insulting. I was raised to be a lady by my mother and as the wife of a Colonel in the USAF (serving in the Secretary of Defense's office), I attend military balls and other formal occasions. I dress appropriately, eat appropriately, don't hoot and holler or fist pump, I don't drink to excess. I cause no embarrassment to my husband or the Pentagon where he works. I would argue that I'm not unique in that respect. I am surrounded by women equally capable of behaving with class and discretion--may I even say elegance. They DON'T behave like a Real Housewife. To make such a statement--that women, playing to the cameras on a TV show--are representative of American women today is outrageous and, with all due respect, rather bone-headed. There are a couple dozen women on those TV shows--from that, you draw a conclusion about of several hundred milion women in a country you don't even reside in and thus have the chance to view day-to-day in a variety of situations. To make blanket statements about American women--and you DID--is incredibly disrespectful and insulting to a multitude of women who are your fellow members on this Forum. I would politely request that, since you don't feel able to make a sincere apology (and you are entitled to your personal beliefs) you at least refrain from continuing on in such a vein.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 07:13:21 PM by grandduchessella »
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Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco
« Reply #580 on: September 03, 2012, 11:15:04 PM »
Hi Ella,

Thank you for writing an intelligent and fair assessmnet of most American (and Canadian) women today.  TV shows do not reflect the majority of the population;  and to judge all aspects of society by "the Dumbing of America" mentality of today's TV is wrong.

Like you, my mother was an armed forces wife (my father was a Canadian Major) and she and her compadres knew how to dress and act like ladies.

Eric is a dolt - I think you know that, as do others on this board - and should have apologized for his ignorant remarks long ago;  but then, only a real gentleman would know when to do so and not have to be told.

Good night, Lady Ella - and pleasant dreams...

Larry

Offline edubs31

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Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco
« Reply #581 on: September 03, 2012, 11:22:06 PM »
Hopefully I can ease the tension a little here but I think the term "lady" is a complex term with plenty of ambiguity. I think it's fair to say that most women neither act like nor aspire to fulfill the traditional "ladylike" concept. American/Western culture has grown far more casual, and the traditional roles women fulfilled in the past can no longer be applied to a society where the vast majority of women are now working outside of the home. Can the average woman after a long day of work who comes home only to realize that she now has to share in the duty of dealing with children and chores really be blamed for wanting to sit back and let her down rather than get dolled up and play the role of the classy dame? I'm amazed at any ordinary woman being able to lead that double life of sorts and I certainly don't find it a shortcoming when they can't.

That said I think it's sad that "polite society" seems to have largely vanished but I blame men for most of that. The way we objectify women encourages decidedly "unladylike" behavior. Sex sells is a male construct much more so than a case of women simply "expressing" themselves.

America doesn't have as much history or a culture as entrenched as the societies of Europe. What was appropriate fashion and behavior in the Russian court, turn of the 20th century just to use as an example, is really irrelevant to compare with what went on in American society if for no other reason that there was no American court. An aristocracy certainly but the far younger, ever changing and significantly more liberalized culture of the United States was naturally going to create a slightly different breed of ladies and gentleman than the Pre-revolution European Empires, no?

So on one hand I guess I can agree with likes of a Grace Kelly or Jackie O being something of a rarer breed (that's rarer still here in 2012). But I also disagree with the concept that American women are any less capable of aspiring to that class of "lady" than their foreign female counterparts.

Now back to the Grimaldi's :-)

Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco
« Reply #582 on: September 03, 2012, 11:36:26 PM »
I think a real lady knows when an insult has been issued or not. Calling someone a dolt does not make you a lady that I know for sure. If you are a lady, my comments should not make anyone less. But since you mentioned only the military ones as examples I will apologize to those who feel slighted. But that does not make the situation that women today are less lady like than in the 50's. Even in England, a true lady is a dying breed. The Princesses of today do not compare with those of previous generations. Before it was class, dignity, royal bearing and style. Princess Alice of Albany once said "In my day, people know their place" Sadly today they do not. Grace was a princess among ladies, a real rate breed.

Interestingly American women has always been viewed a breed apart from European women by people from the UK. That you can see from comments on Jeannie Jerome, Consuelo Vanderbilt & Nancy Astor.

Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco
« Reply #583 on: September 03, 2012, 11:49:00 PM »
Eric.......

Ella did not call you a dolt - I did.....  And, I was being polite......
I can assure you that I am not 'a lady', you idiot, as you can ascertain from my signature, which I put to every post I have on this board....

Larry

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: The Grimaldi's of Monaco
« Reply #584 on: September 03, 2012, 11:59:35 PM »
Not a gentleman then. Everybody knows that I am making a comment. I am sorry if I offended anyone who feel slighted by it. But that is how I see it.