Anna of Cleves

I did admire her a lot until I heard that she was apalled that Henry had married Catherine Parr. She said she was 'much prettier' than Catherine. This struck me a little b!tchy.

I think its just typical female pique and makes her sound human.(Ityped in b!tchy and "pregnant doggy" came up ?? LMAO)

I think its just typical female pique and makes her sound human.(Ityped in b!tchy and "pregnant doggy" came up ?? LMAO)

what's LMAO?

laughing my ass off


i think she was smart enough to know when to back off. that either means she was calculated or she was not very proud. anne bolleyn would have never done that for example, although she was very intelligent herself.

i cannot guess why henry didn't like her, i for one based on portraits think she's prettier than catherine howard and less pretty than catherine parr... but physical attraction still is a mystery nowadays so... prettiness is not always the key

Henry might have been attracted to a certain type of woman . . . and perhaps he was impotent at the time and wanted to cover it up.

maybe not completely impotent... i think he was pretty potent with catherine howard, for example...  

Obviously she lit his fire then.

HHHMMMMM... dirty old mac brigade......what a letch

She did end up the luckiest: she didn't loose her head, was not subjected to a humilating divorce or exceution, and while some bad things were said about her, she ws generally respected. She was wise not to find herself taken back to rot in provincial Cleves at her boring brother's court. Instead, she got status, money, and some esteem of people. Every thing everybody wants, and little that people don't. She was a wise woman, and her intelligence is underestimated, as well as her looks. She was no doubt average in looks, perhaps a bit more, but she might not have been Henry's type. In other areas, despite royal birth, she was provincial in education, manners, dress. No doubt that partly explains Henry's aversion to her. Although she did blossom later, but perhaps even if he had waited, she woudn't have been his type.

Anne was of royal birth, and this made her more respected than mere commoners, members of the English nobility,etc. But this explains some, not all, of her good treatment by Henry. He could have indeed left her in poverty, although he coudn't have executed her. That does actually say quite a bit, in my view, about her abilities and intelligence, and not just the fact of her royal birth.

Obviously having grown up in Cleves she would have been relatively unaware of Henry's previous marital chaos.  And yet, when the moment of truth came, she acted with an amazing sense of self-control and common sense.  She knew what Henry wanted (of course, it could have just been dumb luck on the part of a woman who really had no idea what was going on).  Is it possible that during her time in England some one took her aside and informed her of her predecessors and what brought them down?  Or do you think she picked it up on her own?  Certainly her innocence played a large part, she had nothing coniving or calculating in her so there was no chance of her playing games.  

Where ever it came from, Anna was a remarkable lucky woman.  Certainly she fared better than any of Henry's other wives, including Katherine Parr.  

She was very innocent, but by virtue of this she was wise. She lacked experience, but perhaps it is that very fact that allowed her to play the role she played, and survive. She was the luckiest in practical reality, if not in historic memory as sometimes it seems we don't see her as she was, but in different ways. It is possible that she simply understood on her own; although in Cleves, she was far removed from the things that had been going on in England, and the wider world. I would be curious as well if it was simply her, or whether there was more involved in her wisdom.

Obviously having grown up in Cleves she would have been relatively unaware of Henry's previous marital chaos.  And yet, when the moment of truth came, she acted with an amazing sense of self-control and common sense.  She knew what Henry wanted (of course, it could have just been dumb luck on the part of a woman who really had no idea what was going on).  Is it possible that during her time in England some one took her aside and informed her of her predecessors and what brought them down?  Or do you think she picked it up on her own?  Certainly her innocence played a large part, she had nothing coniving or calculating in her so there was no chance of her playing games.  

Where ever it came from, Anna was a remarkable lucky woman.  Certainly she fared better than any of Henry's other wives, including Katherine Parr.  

The whole of Europe knew about what had happened to Anne Boleyn! Why wouldn't they have known in Cleves?

[Anna]

The whole of Europe knew about what had happened to Anne Boleyn! Why wouldn't they have known in Cleves?
[/quote]

Two reasons why Anna (whom my original statement was about) would not have known: Cleves was backwater Europe (the boonies, really) so while they would have heard about the scandal I doubt they would have heard much about it or even cared because of the lack of interest in English affairs (until, of course, the marriage market began to hum).  Second, Anna was an extremely sheltered child and I sincerely doubt that if the court of Cleves even gave the beheading a second thought Anna would have found out about it.  Her mother probably would have thought it unseemly or unnecessary.  The Court of Cleves was not in the habit of allowing women into politics.

I would venture a guess that Anna was not informed of the matter directly or before she reached English soil.  It was probably whispered to her by a German lady who heard it from an English lady.      

Well, I am sure they knew about what happened to Anne Boleyn in Cleves. But perhaps it could be said that the impact was rather less on Anne of Cleves  than if Anne of Cleves had been growing up at the English court.

Well, I am sure they knew about what happened to Anne Boleyn in Cleves. But perhaps it could be said that the impact was rather less on Anne of Cleves  than if Anne of Cleves had been growing up at the English court.

Yes, I guess this much is true!!

Cleves was hardly a backwater - not an important court, but in the most prosperous and civilised region in Europe - the Low Countries. It is now in Germany close to the dutch border. The Duke of Cleves had ports on the Rhine from which ships went directly to London. I'll guess the fate of Anne Boleyn was among the top topics of conversation at the court of Cleves in 1536!

Of course they talked about it...after all, Anne Boleyn's downfall had the factor in spades