Author Topic: Prince of Prussia vs. Prince of Germany  (Read 9890 times)

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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Prince of Prussia vs. Prince of Germany
« on: August 01, 2005, 12:15:52 PM »
After 1871, what was the official style and title of the Hohenzollern princes? Was it HRH Prince of Prussia or HIH Prince of Germany or Prince of the German Empire? Take Prince Henry, brother of Kaiser Wilhelm as an example. He is always referred to as Prince Henry of Prussia, just as his sisters are referred to as Princesses Victoria, Sophie and Margarete of Prussia. what was the official style?
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Offline Chris_H

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Re: Prince of Prussia vs. Prince of Germany
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2005, 02:47:25 PM »
Hi Prince_Lieven, from what I found out on my research of your question, was that the "of Prussia" was always used.  However the members were called his/her imperial & royal highness

David_Pritchard

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Re: Prince of Prussia vs. Prince of Germany
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2005, 02:55:22 PM »
Since 1918, the Head of the Royal House of Prussia uses the style of His Imperial and Royal Highness. Other members of the house descended from approved equal marriages are accorded the style of Royal Highness, and the title of Prince or Princess of Prussia.

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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Prince of Prussia vs. Prince of Germany
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2005, 03:34:16 PM »
Thank you both for your info.
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Offline Marlene

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Re: Prince of Prussia vs. Prince of Germany
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2005, 09:50:21 PM »
Quote
After 1871, what was the official style and title of the Hohenzollern princes? Was it HRH Prince of Prussia or HIH Prince of Germany or Prince of the German Empire? Take Prince Henry, brother of Kaiser Wilhelm as an example. He is always referred to as Prince Henry of Prussia, just as his sisters are referred to as Princesses Victoria, Sophie and Margarete of Prussia. what was the official style?



Only the Crown Prince was HI & RH.  Not HRH nor HIH ... The rest of the family was HRH Prince or Princess of Prussia.  The heir was of Prussia and the German Empire.
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Offline Marlene

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Re: Prince of Prussia vs. Prince of Germany
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2005, 09:51:51 PM »
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Since 1918, the Head of the Royal House of Prussia uses the style of His Imperial and Royal Highness. Other members of the house descended from approved equal marriages are accorded the style of Royal Highness, and the title of Prince or Princess of Prussia.

David



In 1918, the head of the House was the Kaiser and, even in exile, he was His Imperial Majesty.  The Crown Prince, who died in 1951, was HI & RH before 1918, and Louis Ferdinand adopted the use when his father died. However, his grandson and present head of the family uses HRH.
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David_Pritchard

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Re: Prince of Prussia vs. Prince of Germany
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2005, 10:08:53 PM »
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In 1918, the head of the House was the Kaiser and, even in exile, he was His Imperial Majesty.  The Crown Prince, who died in 1951, was HI & RH before 1918, and Louis Ferdinand adopted the use when his father died. However, his grandson and present head of the family uses HRH.


Yes, the Kaiser used the style of Imperial Majesty. Was this correct? Not in my opinion. Wilhelm II abdicated both the German Throne and the Prussian Throne, at which time he was nothing more than a Royal Highness Prince of Prussia. Had he not abdicated then he would have been entitled to his full styles when he was a reigning monarch.

David

Offline Marlene

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Re: Prince of Prussia vs. Prince of Germany
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2005, 08:26:45 AM »
Quote

Yes, the Kaiser used the style of Imperial Majesty. Was this correct? Not in my opinion. Wilhelm II abdicated both the German Throne and the Prussian Throne, at which time he was nothing more than a Royal Highness Prince of Prussia. Had he not abdicated then he would have been entitled to his full styles when he was a reigning monarch.

David


Well, abdication is rarely a personal choice.  In exile, he remained the Kaiser, and was addressed by other royals ...
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Offline Chris_H

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Re: Prince of Prussia vs. Prince of Germany
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2005, 08:34:06 AM »
Thanks Marlene for clearing that up :D  It is so interesting about the titles and who is addressed as what

David_Pritchard

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Re: Prince of Prussia vs. Prince of Germany
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2005, 10:12:35 AM »
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Well, abdication is rarely a personal choice.  In exile, he remained the Kaiser, and was addressed by other royals ...


I did not write that abdication was a personal choice. Abdication is a legal action, that terminates the powers, privileges and prerogatives of a monarch that were conferred upon the death of his or her predecessor and confirmed in the coronation ceremony. That the former emperor's relatives continued to call him by his former titles and styles was a familial courtesy and a great kindness to a man who had lost so much. I am not maligning one of Queen Victoria's grandsons, simply noting a legal fact.

David




Offline Marlene

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Re: Prince of Prussia vs. Prince of Germany
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2005, 01:38:35 PM »
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I did not write that abdication was a personal choice. Abdication is a legal action, that terminates the powers, privileges and prerogatives of a monarch that were conferred upon the death of his or her predecessor and confirmed in the coronation ceremony. That the former emperor's relatives continued to call him by his former titles and styles was a familial courtesy and a great kindness to a man who had lost so much. I am not maligning one of Queen Victoria's grandsons, simply noting a legal fact.

David





I don't think the Kaiser was crowned.  Moreover, abdication changes one's position as head of state.  But abdication does not take away a title.
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David_Pritchard

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Re: Prince of Prussia vs. Prince of Germany
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2005, 06:26:12 PM »
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I don't think the Kaiser was crowned.  Moreover, abdication changes one's position as head of state.  But abdication does not take away a title.


Are we to forget that when King Edward VIII of Great Britan and Northern Ireland abdicated the British Throne, he was reduced to the standing of a Royal Highness Prince of Great Britain and Northern Ireland until his brother, King George VI bestowed the higher royal ducal title of Duke of Windsor upon him?

If we were to follow your reasoning then there would have been a King Edward VIII of Great Britain and Northern Ireland simultaneously with a King George VI of Great Britain and Northern Ireland ; a Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands simultaneously with a Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands; a King Leopold III of the Belgians simultaneously with a King Baudouin I of the Belgians; a Grand Duchess Charlotte of Luxemburg simultaneously with a Grand Duke Jean of Luxemburg and so forth and so on.

David
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by David_Pritchard »

Offline TJ Jones

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Re: Prince of Prussia vs. Prince of Germany
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2005, 12:26:51 AM »
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I don't think the Kaiser was crowned.  Moreover, abdication changes one's position as head of state.  But abdication does not take away a title.



The Kaiser wasn't crowned, but it was still considered a coronation ceremony. None of the more "new" monarchys crowned their monarch.
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David_Pritchard

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Re: Prince of Prussia vs. Prince of Germany
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2005, 01:32:07 AM »
Dear TJ,

I have found various references to a coronation but the actual ceremony has not been explained. One reference was to a coronation church service another involved the members of the Reichstag, possibly an announcement of Wilhelm's accession to the Throne. There must have been some sort of ceremony no matter how plain or short because Wilhelm had a crown fabricated in 1888, the same year that he became kaiser.

David
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by David_Pritchard »

Offline Marlene

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Re: Prince of Prussia vs. Prince of Germany
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2005, 09:21:31 AM »
The monarchy ceased to exist in Germany.   Edward VIII could not abdicate without an act of Parliament.  He was given a new title, and was succeeded by his brother.  The monarchy continued.  In Germany, it didn't.   Grand Duke Jean retains the title of Grand Duke, but he is no longer the sovereign.  Wilhelmina and Juliana adopted the title Princess; in death, they returned to be Queen.  However, these monarchies continued.  Wilhelm II's monarchy was gone.  The new government could not take away his title of King.  They could make new laws.  He was a former soveriegn ruler, but he remained the Kaiser in exile.


Quote

Are we to forget that when King Edward VIII of Great Britan and Northern Ireland abdicated the British Throne, he was reduced to the standing of a Royal Highness Prince of Great Britain and Northern Ireland until his brother, King George VI bestowed the higher royal ducal title of Duke of Windsor upon him?

If we were to follow your reasoning then there would have been a King Edward VIII of Great Britain and Northern Ireland simultaneously with a King George VI of Great Britain and Northern Ireland ; a Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands simultaneously with a Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands; a King Leopold III of the Belgians simultaneously with a King Baudouin I of the Belgians; a Grand Duchess Charlotte of Luxemburg simultaneously with a Grand Duke Jean of Luxemburg and so forth and so on.

David

Author of Queen Victoria's Descendants,
& publisher of Royal Book News.
Visit my blog, Royal Musings  http://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/