Author Topic: 101 Reasons AA was not FS.  (Read 26349 times)

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Finelly

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101 Reasons AA was not FS.
« on: August 04, 2005, 12:47:05 AM »
Ok, here's the deal:

1.   Dna evidence is not being considered for this thread.

2.  For the purposes of this thread, whether you agree in real life or not, the premise is that FS was not AA.  

3.  Let's review the evidence, pro and con.  HOWEVER.........

     - you must provide the sources for your claimed facts.
     - heresay evidence ("I heard she was a slut, it's a rumor, but...") is not allowed.
     - Sworn statements have more reliability than newspaper interviews.
     - the best posts will contain reasons for opinions and claims.  Not just gut feelings.

And of course, the newly-re-established rules of behavior apply.  FA will monitor, I presume, and personal insults and harassment, including harassment about the nature of this thread, will not be permitted.


Offline lexi4

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was not FS.
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2005, 12:50:12 AM »
Finelly,
Great topic! I will pull out my books and start to look for evidence to post. This could be a really interesting discussion.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Finelly

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was not FS.
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2005, 12:54:14 AM »
Fact:  Gertrude, FS' sister, swore under oath that her sister had no scars, marks, or other distinguishing features on her body.  The affidavit was signed in Hamburg in 1953.

Fact:  In a sworn statement, FS' landlady stated that FS had no scars, moles, or distinguishing marks.

According to FS' medical records after the grenade explosion, FS had no scarring or injuries from the event.  Below is a post from Penny Wilson on another thread:

But about the grenade accident in the AEG Farben:  Franziska worked in some capacity on the production line.  Something she did caused a live grenade to fall to the ground where it detonated and killed one man.  She was understandably distraught, and was taken immediately to the factory's own hospital.  She was examined for physical injury, and was found to have none; she was detained for psychological observation because of the shock she had experienced.  All this was noted by the doctors in her records at that hospital.  The hospital is still in existence, and as it stands some distance from the city of Berlin (as did the factory), it survived WWII.

A few years ago, a researcher of my acquaintance accessed those hospital records for the first time.  There's nothing sinister or suspicious about the fact that they have been unaccessed for so long -- from WWII until the fall of the Iron Curtain, the hospital existed in East German territory and its records were unavailable.  Probably, many people forgot that this hospital had once serviced AEG Farben.  But this researcher-friend was thorough in his business, and he  was able, through proper channels, to get copies of these records.  I've seen them myself, and they state exactly what I have said above.  Take it or leave it, believe it or not.  Whatever.  It doesn't alter the truth of the records.


Offline lexi4

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was not FS.
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2005, 01:42:39 AM »
According to Peter Kurth, www.peterkurth.com
Gertrude said that FS has  ""no distinguishing bodily marks," in particular, scars, moles, or the congenital malformation of the feet—hallux valgus—that was seen in both Anna Anderson and Anastasia. She was never wounded in the grenade-factory explosion and wasn’t hospitalized until later.'
We know that AA had a scar along the side of her head, a shattered jaw, and a star shaped wound on her foot.
This scar stuff is very interesting. Who did AA get those scars and when? Family members said FS didn't have any scars like that. Kurth said she was not wounded in the factory explosion and this again confirmed by medical records that Penny has.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow ---- What a ride!!!"

Offline Annie

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was not FS.
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2005, 06:32:09 AM »
I don't see how anyone would know if a person had any scars or body marks if they had not seen them naked, or at least scantily clothed. But consider that in those days, women did not go about in shorts, halters or even short sleeves the way they do now. So really all anyone would see would be her hands and face.

And since doubt of evidence always comes into the other threads, think about the fact that the sister may have not WANTED anyone to believe it was her sister, so therefore 'threw off the trial'. Also, there is honest human error and just plain being mistaken to consider. People sometimes remember things wrong when they thought they were right. (like the old tub story I used to tell where 5 people saw a house and each one remembered the tub a different color and all swore they were right.)

Finelly

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was not FS.
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2005, 10:05:54 AM »
Sorry, opinion and conjecture do not meet the legal standard!  

Gotta have evidence and cite sources.

Offline etonexile

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was not FS.
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2005, 10:09:17 AM »
DNA evidence should always be considered...we can't un-know what we know....It's all the ear-measuring,foot sizes,hairlines and other pseudo-science that keeps alive the myth of AA as AN.....

Finelly

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was not FS.
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2005, 10:13:46 AM »
Well, this is the opposite of Annie's thread, in which the premise is that FS was AA.  In both threads, we didn't discuss the dna issue.

Offline etonexile

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was not FS.
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2005, 10:14:58 AM »
But you both should have.....

Finelly

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was not FS.
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2005, 10:16:04 AM »
<shrug>  

Offline Annie

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was not FS.
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2005, 10:19:08 AM »
Quote
DNA evidence should always be considered...we can't un-know what we know....It's all the ear-measuring,foot sizes,hairlines and other pseudo-science that keeps alive the myth of AA as AN.....


True, all that stuff is contradicted back and forth by various people. Some say this, some say that. Again I will bring up the story of the fans who all met the rock star yet all reported him as a different height, anywhere from 5'2" to 5'8" though all were standing right by him and all believed themselves to be correct. They'd actually fight over it, like we do here over AA!

As was discussed several months ago, the shoes and clothes really don't hold much either. They may not have been hers, come on, why would a woman who ran a boarding house keep one person's stuff for 18 years? Did she have that much room? Anyone would have tossed it or given it away years ago. There is also the possibility it wasn't hers at all, like the story I told about loaning the baby clothes to a friend, and she sent me back the wrong ones claiming they were mine but they were not. She honestly believed she was right, but it wasn't my stuff. Also, FS could have had charity clothes and shoes that did not fit, times were hard.

So really, all the he said she said stuff like that cancels itself out since none of it can be proven. I'm not saying anyone lied (though they may have) but human error, and distortion of memory in the mind's eye are very common among even the best of people. Since we don't know and will never know since all those people are dead and the shoes are in the trash, we can't prove anything that way.


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline Annie

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was not FS.
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2005, 10:21:29 AM »
Quote
But you both should have.....


I never said I didn't want to use it, I do believe in using it, but so many people here have so many conspiracy theories about switches and contamination and whatever I was trying to find another way to discount AA's claim.

Finelly

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was not FS.
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2005, 10:25:30 AM »
Sorry, opinion and conjecture do not meet the legal standard!  

Gotta have evidence and cite sources.

Finelly

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was not FS.
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2005, 10:31:49 AM »
Fact:  FS wore a size 39 shoe.  AA wore a size 36 shoe.  (interview of Gertrude in 1927)

Fact:  FS had dark, almost black hair.  AA had light, sandy-red hair.  (interview of Gertrude in 1927, interview of WIngender family in 1927)

Fact:  FS was big-boned and stocky, sturdily-built.  AA was tiny and frail.  (interviews of Gertrude, Wingender family in 1927. Also, sworn statement of Gertrude, 1953)

Fritz Shuricht was a private investigator who conducted the above interviews in Hamburg.

Mgmstl

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Re: 101 Reasons AA was not FS.
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2005, 10:35:06 AM »
We also need to cite the Grossman theory here, I will start working on that in a few hours.