Author Topic: Heinrich Kleibenzetl - His Testimony at Anna Anderson's Trial  (Read 53693 times)

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Offline AGRBear

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Re: Heinrich Kleibenzetl - His Testimony at Anna Anderson's Trial
« Reply #150 on: August 26, 2007, 02:40:32 PM »

I am just trying to make sure the information is accurate ...  This is all I've ever tried to do.
AGRBear


Curious Bear,

How can information be accurate if it is a fabrication?

Margarita


I  will repeat  what I've said a gazillion times just on this thread.  We do not have to believe Heirnich K.'s  testimony, but
his testimony should be  reported  accurately.

Please,  read this carefully:    I am surrounded by lawyers and know a great deal about court trials and juries and how people
can lie on the stand.    So,   it's not necessary for you to explain to me  what goes on in a court room. 

This is a truth:  In order for justice to be met   doesn't mean I  or you should go into the court records and change someone's testimony and post it here or anywhere else  because some person or persons  has or have lied.   What is is.  We can only hope that truth will prevail.   More times than not it does.

AGRBear 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2007, 02:48:03 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Heinrich Kleibenzetl - His Testimony at Anna Anderson's Trial
« Reply #151 on: August 26, 2007, 11:25:42 PM »
Dmitri, it is my decision to keep this thread open. Kindly speak to AGR Bear with respect and not derision.

Offline dmitri

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Re: Heinrich Kleibenzetl - His Testimony at Anna Anderson's Trial
« Reply #152 on: August 27, 2007, 12:32:25 AM »
The topic "Henreich Kebenzetl who saw Anastasia alive"

Of course Anastasia was "dead" and did not survive so it was impossible to see her "alive".

In line with New Rules made by FA, this thread would seem to be very much out of order. Quotes from FA to back this up :

"This section is now dedicated strictly to the historical discussion of those who claimed to be survivors and is NOT to be used to dispute, press or argue that anyone DID survive.  They didn't, so take the conspiracy theories and revisionist plotting elsewhere."
 
and

"I direct all mods to please enforce these discussion guidelines."

With due respect, it would seem that this thread is no longer acceptable as it pushes an agenda that Anastasia did survive which everybody knows did NOT happen.



   

Offline CorisCapnSkip

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Re: Heinrich Kleibenzetl - His Testimony at Anna Anderson's Trial
« Reply #153 on: August 27, 2007, 12:48:01 AM »
No, it could still be a discussion as to whether Heinrich Kleibenzetl was mistaken, or lying, but the truthfulness of his assertion can't be valid unless the recently discovered remains turn out to be of somebody other than Anastasia or Maria.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Heinrich Kleibenzetl - His Testimony at Anna Anderson's Trial
« Reply #154 on: August 27, 2007, 11:30:45 PM »
It appears to have been FAs decision that moderators were to take note of the decision. It seemed clearly signalled that matters to do with Anastasia having survived were to be closed down.

Not the case at all. I am still the Moderator of the Survivors Forum and it will continue. Everyone who posts to the Survivor Forum needs to treat others with respect.

Offline Alice

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Re: Heinrich Kleibenzetl - His Testimony at Anna Anderson's Trial
« Reply #155 on: August 29, 2007, 01:44:57 AM »
It appears to have been FAs decision that moderators were to take note of the decision. It seemed clearly signalled that matters to do with Anastasia having survived were to be closed down.

One would have to question your comprehension skills if this is how you have interpreted the new rules. FA stated:

Quote
This section is now dedicated strictly to the historical discussion of those who claimed to be survivors and is NOT to be used to dispute, press or argue that anyone DID survive.  They didn't, so take the conspiracy theories and revisionist plotting elsewhere.

Nowhere has it been "clearly signalled" that matters to do with Anastasia having survived were to be closed. Kleibenzetl's testimony is being discussed in this thread - no-one is disputing, pressing or arguing that the testimony is true, just that it exists. Why must 90% of your posts on this forum be negative?

Offline Lemur

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Re: Heinrich Kleibenzetl - His Testimony at Anna Anderson's Trial
« Reply #156 on: August 29, 2007, 10:28:49 AM »
Quote
Nowhere has it been "clearly signalled" that matters to do with Anastasia having survived were to be closed

I thought that's exactly what it meant, and that any discussions mentioning questions of her having survived were the same as saying she may have lived, which we know now she didn't, and also leaving the door open for claimants, which is not possible. The only valid reason to continue to discuss what Kleibenzetl said is to determine how he came up with the story and why he lied, and was he part of AA's claim in some way. We know for sure that he didn't see Anastasia so the question of if he did or not is now moot.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2007, 10:30:28 AM by Lemur »

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Heinrich Kleibenzetl - His Testimony at Anna Anderson's Trial
« Reply #157 on: August 30, 2007, 12:55:14 AM »
The evidence indicates that all the family perished. However, we are not prohibiting discussion. For the nth time, I am Moderator of this Topic area, and my decisions are final. If you do not wish to discuss the topic, kindly post elsewhere.

Offline CorisCapnSkip

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Re: Heinrich Kleibenzetl - His Testimony at Anna Anderson's Trial
« Reply #158 on: August 30, 2007, 02:28:34 AM »
We know for sure that he didn't see Anastasia so the question of if he did or not is now moot.

Unless you lend any credence to the theories of new forum member dolgoruky18, who believes the girls may have been merely wounded, and not finished off until after being taken to the Four Brothers Mine or elsewhere in the woods.

Offline Alice

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Re: Heinrich Kleibenzetl - His Testimony at Anna Anderson's Trial
« Reply #159 on: August 30, 2007, 02:35:35 AM »
The only valid reason to continue to discuss what Kleibenzetl said is to determine how he came up with the story and why he lied, and was he part of AA's claim in some way.

Correct. I'll say again that no-one is disputing, pressing or arguing that his testimony is true, just that it exists. "Matters do to with Anastasia having survived" can encompass discussions prompted by reasons such as the above, and it's within the forum's guidelines.

Offline BobAtchison

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Re: Heinrich Kleibenzetl - His Testimony at Anna Anderson's Trial
« Reply #160 on: August 30, 2007, 01:59:52 PM »
Please, dear friends - Lisa is the moderator of this thread so she is in charge here.  If anyone doesn't like how she is handling it then there plenty of other threads on the forum one can go to.

Being a moderator is a thankless task.  Please be understanding we don't always get it right.  We are trying to figure out how to handle each survivor thread - all of them are different.

Bob

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Heinrich Kleibenzetl - His Testimony at Anna Anderson's Trial
« Reply #161 on: August 30, 2007, 02:19:38 PM »
Then please tell me and everyone else now, are the new rules null and void because Lisa wants the discussion to continue after all? If so why not just delete the thread with the new rules if it's not going to be enforced? I really do think we need 2 mods here, a second opinion is always better than a 'my word is the final law' autocrat don't you think?

One final post on the subject of Moderating this thread. Bob owns the Forum. He is free to run it however he wishes. He wishes me to moderate this part of the Forum. If he wanted someone else, he would appoint them. He has not. You have your answer.

This is not a democracy, it's a privately owned and run Forum.

It is obvious that you disagree with me. Fine, I acknowledge you disagree with me.

My ruling stands, and please understand, I do not mean this unkindly, but any further OT posts, including what you think I should or should not allow here will be deleted. As some of you know, I do not mind if you PM me with your comments or opinions. If you put something here I have told you not to, with the Owner's fully backing my authority, my response is, what is it about I am the Moderator and in charge do you not understand?

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Heinrich Kleibenzetl - His Testimony at Anna Anderson's Trial
« Reply #162 on: August 30, 2007, 05:04:48 PM »
OK,

I've been out of the office most of today.  Here is the LAST word on this subject. 

This discussion may continue along the following guidelines.  HK reported he saw/heard something.  That is part of the historical record.  We know now that he could not have seen GD Ananstasia alive, as she was not.  That does not sui generis mean he was lying.  People often see or hear things and are mistaken as to what they believed they saw.

Lisa is correct that the discussion can continue, so long as nobody uses the HK evidence to SUPPORT the assertion ANR survived.  The examination of the historical record of what he reported is ok.

ANY further questions on this are to be addressed to me specifically as it is my belief that Lisa was acting in accordance with the new rules and should not have been questioned.

FA


Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Heinrich Kleibenzetl - His Testimony at Anna Anderson's Trial
« Reply #163 on: August 30, 2007, 06:24:15 PM »
Quote
so long as nobody uses the HK evidence to SUPPORT the assertion ANR survived.

This was the grey area. It did seem like bear was doing that, and when Lisa said discussion may continue even though we believe everyone died it sounded like the same old policy as before. I took her post to mean it was okay to discuss AN's possible survival. That was the confusion.

Actually, what I said was that the poster who was being rude to AGR Bear needed to be polite and civil to her. And, I do insist on civility, regardless of who has been on which side of the fence. And, I will continue to say that we need to be civil to one another.

I have also sent you a PM, Annie, so if you have any questions after reading it, please let Rob or me know.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Heinrich Kleibenzetl - His Testimony at Anna Anderson's Trial
« Reply #164 on: August 30, 2007, 06:43:39 PM »
Perhaps the problem is, now, with the title of the thread and should just read Henrich Kleibenzetl and his testimony.

I don't think we need to start  a new thread because things just get scattered so it seems to me we can just continue here about Heinrich K. .

Thank you Lisa and FA for  your clearifications.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152